Loose nut

[cliff.b]

Just adjusting my handbrake and noticed that there was play between the drum and the drive shaft which I have found is due to the nut on the end of the shaft being loose.

This is worrying as it was also loose when I bought the car and I tightened it 

In the manual it says "self locking nut" so just wondering, does this look like the correct but and also, can anyone confirm the torque for it please?

[johny]

My free workshop manual says 100 - 110 lb.ft and normally the problem on removal is the hub is very tightly held on the halfshaft due to the taper and key arrangement. However as this has happened twice I wonder if the taper and/or key are damaged and the hub isnt being locked in place correctly...

[NonMember]

It's just a standard (albeit large) nyloc nut, but tightened to 110lbft. If it does work loose, the hub will work loose on the taper with a bit of driving. I wonder whether you're suffering a version of the usual head nut problem - if that washer is not properly hard then it will crush and the torque will get released.

[cliff.b]

Hmmm, it was a little play between the hub and the drive shaft that alerted me to this which suggests to me that the hub had started to come loose, perhaps.

I have tightened again and will keep a close eye on it. I presume that unlike front wheel bearings, overtightening isn't likely to cause any problems?

[NonMember]

Unless you overtighten to the point of stripping threads, it's fine. The bearing is not pre-loaded on a swing-axle as there's nothing to locate the housing (or anything else much) on the shaft.

[Pete Lewis]

i would before you do anything  remove the nut and pull the hub off  as its obviously loose giving float  it should avoid the normal hassle and just pop off

is the keyway fitted , if its failed drive torque will spin the shaft in the hub even when its nut is tight 

just doing it up wont cure the base problem 

sorry its get it off and look see whats really going on 

if the shaft has turned inside the hub flange i fear the flange is scrapped now the shaft might survive being the harder of the two parts 

so look first   retighten last  

Pete

 

[cliff.b]

10 minutes ago, NonMember said:

Unless you overtighten to the point of stripping threads, it's fine. The bearing is not pre-loaded on a swing-axle as there's nothing to locate the housing (or anything else much) on the shaft.

Thanks. It is well tight now so if it loosens again it will definitely require further investigation. Passenger side was fine. 

[cliff.b]

2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

i would before you do anything  remove the nut and pull the hub off  as its obviously loose giving float  it should avoid the normal hassle and just pop off

is the keyway fitted , if its failed drive torque will spin the shaft in the hub even when its nut is tight 

just doing it up wont cure the base problem 

sorry its get it off and look see whats really going on 

if the shaft has turned inside the hub flange i fear the flange is scrapped now the shaft might survive being the harder of the two parts 

so look first   retighten last  

Pete

 

Sounds like I will need to take another look then 🙄. 

Just to clarify, I didn't notice any end float but if I turned the brake drum there was a bit of movement before the drive shaft moved. Then repeated with the drum off, turning the hub.

Nipping the nut up a little stopped this but then subsequently, I could tighten quite a lot more.

Is this still consistent with what you have explained?

[Josef]

It’s not quite a ‘normal’ locknut if I remember correctly. Pretty sure it’s not as tall as the standard UNF size. At least the ones I bought from a fastenings supplier after deciding I wasn’t paying the high price for a single nut from a Triumph supplier were too tall to be used…

[Pete Lewis]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

with what you have explained?

Yes    def sound like the keyway has failed or ....missing 

you keep having to tighten the nut as the shaft has spun inside the hub flange you take up that wear by retightening  

think that rings the bell  ???  

let us know what you find 

ref canley   Rear Axle : Canley Classics    just calls it half shaft nut  no mention of long or short 

if the threads appear beyond the lock ring then its fine    if they dont it needs a half nut 

but with a good fittiing keyway there should be no shuffle going on and any  5/8 unf  nut will work ok 

looking at the pic  you have a good deal of thread showing beyond the nut   another indication of there a problem here 

Pete

 

[68vitesse]

Spalding fasteners list 5/8unf nyloc half nuts, have used these and the standard hight ones if the thread on the shaft is long enough.

Regards

Paul.

 

[cliff.b]

21 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

Yes    def sound like the keyway has failed or ....missing 

you keep having to tighten the nut as the shaft has spun inside the hub flange you take up that wear by retightening  

think that rings the bell  ???  

let us know what you find 

ref canley   Rear Axle : Canley Classics    just calls it half shaft nut  no mention of long or short 

if the threads appear beyond the lock ring then its fine    if they dont it needs a half nut 

but with a good fittiing keyway there should be no shuffle going on and any  5/8 unf  nut will work ok 

looking at the pic  you have a good deal of thread showing beyond the nut   another indication of there a problem here 

Pete

 

Ok, many thanks 👍

[Stratton Jimmer]

When I was serving in the RAF we were never allowed to re-use a nyloc nut. They always had to be replaced with new and I adhere to this practice today.

[cliff.b]

20 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

When I was serving in the RAF we were never allowed to re-use a nyloc nut. They always had to be replaced with new and I adhere to this practice today.

I was wondering about that myself 🤔

[Peter Truman]

Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs  nowadays appear easier to obtain than  std nuts?

[Josef]

44 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs  nowadays appear easier to obtain than  std nuts?

When I sold my modernish Mini one potential buyer had previously restored a Spitfire, and his brother had bought a Jag off of Wheeler Dealers. The quality of the work was appalling apparently…

[Colin Lindsay]

12 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs  nowadays appear easier to obtain than  std nuts?

I really cringed at their E-type renovation: new panels, new paint, and rusty self tappers and penny washers to hold it on.

[cliff.b]

I haven't watched a lot of this programme but got the impression that the main point is to make a profit from the car and so consequently, spend as little as possible on it.

Much the same as dubious secondhand car dealers have been doing ever since there has been cars.

Caveat emptor 🤔

[Wagger]

If the key has sheared, or is missing, the shaft can rotate within the hub, in extreme cases you will lose drive. If you have a hub puller, remove the hub and check it all.

[cliff.b]

46 minutes ago, Wagger said:

If the key has sheared, or is missing, the shaft can rotate within the hub, in extreme cases you will lose drive. If you have a hub puller, remove the hub and check it all.

Unfortunately, I don't have a puller but I am planning to investigate further this weekend and as it has been loose, to see if it will come off without one.

If it won't shift then I am considering making frequent inspections and to try again if any play returns.

As a matter of interest, are generic pullers not up to the job? I could probably borrow one of those.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

Caveat emptor 🤔

Yes, mine too, must refill it.

[cliff.b]

Just now, Colin Lindsay said:

Yes, mine too, must refill it.

Lol

[NonMember]

34 minutes ago, cliff.b said:

are generic pullers not up to the job?

No, not at all, not even close, and will damage the hub in the process. The ONLY way to remove a (properly fitted) rear hub intact is with the correct special tool.

[Wagger]

38 minutes ago, cliff.b said:

Unfortunately, I don't have a puller but I am planning to investigate further this weekend and as it has been loose, to see if it will come off without one.

If it won't shift then I am considering making frequent inspections and to try again if any play returns.

As a matter of interest, are generic pullers not up to the job? I could probably borrow one of those.

The one that I obtained from the club shop is very capable. Did my Vitesse and that has larger nuts and shafts. It took 150lb ft to remove n/s one. ake sure wheel nuts ae not about to strip. One of mine did, but a new set enabled proper use.

[Paul H]

1 minute ago, Wagger said:

The one that I obtained from the club shop is very capable. Did my Vitesse and that has larger nuts and shafts. It took 150lb ft to remove n/s one. ake sure wheel nuts ae not about to strip. One of mine did, but a new set enabled proper use.

I’ve got one you could borrow should you need it , I’m at Bury St Edmunds 1hr away 

Paul