cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Just adjusting my handbrake and noticed that there was play between the drum and the drive shaft which I have found is due to the nut on the end of the shaft being loose. This is worrying as it was also loose when I bought the car and I tightened it In the manual it says "self locking nut" so just wondering, does this look like the correct but and also, can anyone confirm the torque for it please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 My free workshop manual says 100 - 110 lb.ft and normally the problem on removal is the hub is very tightly held on the halfshaft due to the taper and key arrangement. However as this has happened twice I wonder if the taper and/or key are damaged and the hub isnt being locked in place correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 It's just a standard (albeit large) nyloc nut, but tightened to 110lbft. If it does work loose, the hub will work loose on the taper with a bit of driving. I wonder whether you're suffering a version of the usual head nut problem - if that washer is not properly hard then it will crush and the torque will get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Hmmm, it was a little play between the hub and the drive shaft that alerted me to this which suggests to me that the hub had started to come loose, perhaps. I have tightened again and will keep a close eye on it. I presume that unlike front wheel bearings, overtightening isn't likely to cause any problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Unless you overtighten to the point of stripping threads, it's fine. The bearing is not pre-loaded on a swing-axle as there's nothing to locate the housing (or anything else much) on the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 i would before you do anything remove the nut and pull the hub off as its obviously loose giving float it should avoid the normal hassle and just pop off is the keyway fitted , if its failed drive torque will spin the shaft in the hub even when its nut is tight just doing it up wont cure the base problem sorry its get it off and look see whats really going on if the shaft has turned inside the hub flange i fear the flange is scrapped now the shaft might survive being the harder of the two parts so look first retighten last Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, NonMember said: Unless you overtighten to the point of stripping threads, it's fine. The bearing is not pre-loaded on a swing-axle as there's nothing to locate the housing (or anything else much) on the shaft. Thanks. It is well tight now so if it loosens again it will definitely require further investigation. Passenger side was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: i would before you do anything remove the nut and pull the hub off as its obviously loose giving float it should avoid the normal hassle and just pop off is the keyway fitted , if its failed drive torque will spin the shaft in the hub even when its nut is tight just doing it up wont cure the base problem sorry its get it off and look see whats really going on if the shaft has turned inside the hub flange i fear the flange is scrapped now the shaft might survive being the harder of the two parts so look first retighten last Pete Sounds like I will need to take another look then 🙄. Just to clarify, I didn't notice any end float but if I turned the brake drum there was a bit of movement before the drive shaft moved. Then repeated with the drum off, turning the hub. Nipping the nut up a little stopped this but then subsequently, I could tighten quite a lot more. Is this still consistent with what you have explained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 It’s not quite a ‘normal’ locknut if I remember correctly. Pretty sure it’s not as tall as the standard UNF size. At least the ones I bought from a fastenings supplier after deciding I wasn’t paying the high price for a single nut from a Triumph supplier were too tall to be used… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, cliff.b said: with what you have explained? Yes def sound like the keyway has failed or ....missing you keep having to tighten the nut as the shaft has spun inside the hub flange you take up that wear by retightening think that rings the bell ??? let us know what you find ref canley Rear Axle : Canley Classics just calls it half shaft nut no mention of long or short if the threads appear beyond the lock ring then its fine if they dont it needs a half nut but with a good fittiing keyway there should be no shuffle going on and any 5/8 unf nut will work ok looking at the pic you have a good deal of thread showing beyond the nut another indication of there a problem here Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Spalding fasteners list 5/8unf nyloc half nuts, have used these and the standard hight ones if the thread on the shaft is long enough. Regards Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: Yes def sound like the keyway has failed or ....missing you keep having to tighten the nut as the shaft has spun inside the hub flange you take up that wear by retightening think that rings the bell ??? let us know what you find ref canley Rear Axle : Canley Classics just calls it half shaft nut no mention of long or short if the threads appear beyond the lock ring then its fine if they dont it needs a half nut but with a good fittiing keyway there should be no shuffle going on and any 5/8 unf nut will work ok looking at the pic you have a good deal of thread showing beyond the nut another indication of there a problem here Pete Ok, many thanks 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 When I was serving in the RAF we were never allowed to re-use a nyloc nut. They always had to be replaced with new and I adhere to this practice today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: When I was serving in the RAF we were never allowed to re-use a nyloc nut. They always had to be replaced with new and I adhere to this practice today. I was wondering about that myself 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs nowadays appear easier to obtain than std nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 44 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs nowadays appear easier to obtain than std nuts? When I sold my modernish Mini one potential buyer had previously restored a Spitfire, and his brother had bought a Jag off of Wheeler Dealers. The quality of the work was appalling apparently… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Peter Truman said: Always flinch when I watch Wheeler D'er's as they reuse the rusty old Nylock nuts, ironically when I buy Nylocs their cheaper in bulk than std nuts & UNF Nylocs nowadays appear easier to obtain than std nuts? I really cringed at their E-type renovation: new panels, new paint, and rusty self tappers and penny washers to hold it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 I haven't watched a lot of this programme but got the impression that the main point is to make a profit from the car and so consequently, spend as little as possible on it. Much the same as dubious secondhand car dealers have been doing ever since there has been cars. Caveat emptor 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 If the key has sheared, or is missing, the shaft can rotate within the hub, in extreme cases you will lose drive. If you have a hub puller, remove the hub and check it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 46 minutes ago, Wagger said: If the key has sheared, or is missing, the shaft can rotate within the hub, in extreme cases you will lose drive. If you have a hub puller, remove the hub and check it all. Unfortunately, I don't have a puller but I am planning to investigate further this weekend and as it has been loose, to see if it will come off without one. If it won't shift then I am considering making frequent inspections and to try again if any play returns. As a matter of interest, are generic pullers not up to the job? I could probably borrow one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 hour ago, cliff.b said: Caveat emptor 🤔 Yes, mine too, must refill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 Just now, Colin Lindsay said: Yes, mine too, must refill it. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 34 minutes ago, cliff.b said: are generic pullers not up to the job? No, not at all, not even close, and will damage the hub in the process. The ONLY way to remove a (properly fitted) rear hub intact is with the correct special tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 38 minutes ago, cliff.b said: Unfortunately, I don't have a puller but I am planning to investigate further this weekend and as it has been loose, to see if it will come off without one. If it won't shift then I am considering making frequent inspections and to try again if any play returns. As a matter of interest, are generic pullers not up to the job? I could probably borrow one of those. The one that I obtained from the club shop is very capable. Did my Vitesse and that has larger nuts and shafts. It took 150lb ft to remove n/s one. ake sure wheel nuts ae not about to strip. One of mine did, but a new set enabled proper use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Wagger said: The one that I obtained from the club shop is very capable. Did my Vitesse and that has larger nuts and shafts. It took 150lb ft to remove n/s one. ake sure wheel nuts ae not about to strip. One of mine did, but a new set enabled proper use. I’ve got one you could borrow should you need it , I’m at Bury St Edmunds 1hr away Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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