Heater valve

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Car is Mk3 Spitfire. I replaced the heater motor a couple of years ago but there is no heat transfer into the cabin. The matrix holds pressure and water flowed freely when I put it under a tap.

The job has found its way near to the top of my “to do” list. It would not surprise me if it was a simple air lock but I’m thinking of removing and testing the valve.

Any tips or other pearls of wisdom from those of you with more experience?

[Colin Lindsay]

If the water is flowing through the matrix when tested, then the hot from the engine isn't reaching that far. It's either the valve or if you have it on the Mk3, the long pipe under the manifold. On my Herald 13/60 mine was so gummed up it actually broke on removal, but gives an indication of what lurks within.... disconnect all the hoses and attach the end of a hose, and see if the water makes it through.

[NonMember]

24 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

if you have it on the Mk3, the long pipe under the manifold

Yes, they all have some version of that pipe. The Mk3 one is similar to a 13/60, and quite a likely candidate.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Just taken these pictures.

There is a long pipe running under the manifold. Is this “in” and “out” is through the valve?

First test is to check flow going in?

 

[NonMember]

The direction of flow is fairly obvious if you think about it.

The hose from the cylinder head to the valve is connected to just about the hottest part of the engine. That's the flow to the heater. The other hose connects to a pipe that joins the water pump housing on the radiator bottom hose side. That's the return from the heater.

[Pete Lewis]

and talking air locks  just run the engine and part disconnect the heater hose at its highest point to let any air out 

worth  a check first as its simple to do 

as most of the bay looks in good order did you fit a new pipe ,?? and the adaptor into the back of the pump can block up

if the heater valve was all old and crusty but its not i would suggest its worth stripping it out as they clog up 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

From memory don't just check the hole thro the M/S adapter as suggested by Pete but check it's extension into the pump housing the water channel at this point is very narrow and there could be a deposit build up fromthe extension of the adapter end.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Just removed the valve and it’s blocked. Currently poured-in some sink unblocker, now waiting…..I don’t have any caustic soda but tempted to walk to shops to buy some. Any other suggestions?

With the valve off, thought I’d check that the matrix remains clear. Tried a bit of suck and blow through the hoses and can confirm that antifreeze doesn’t taste good. Used mouthwash to no avail, now trying coffee. Guess I’ll have this taste for the rest of the day. Oh the joy.

[Iain T]

Hopefully that's the only blockage. When refilling I've always been told not to mix OAT and IAT antifreeze. When I bought my car the radiator, heater valve and some pipes where full of a gloopy gel (some of it solid) that can form when you mix the two types. 

Iain 

[Colin Lindsay]

34 minutes ago, 1969Mk3Spitfire said:

Just removed the valve and it’s blocked. Currently poured-in some sink unblocker, now waiting…..I don’t have any caustic soda but tempted to walk to shops to buy some. Any other suggestions?

With the valve off, thought I’d check that the matrix remains clear. Tried a bit of suck and blow through the hoses and can confirm that antifreeze doesn’t taste good. Used mouthwash to no avail, now trying coffee. Guess I’ll have this taste for the rest of the day. Oh the joy.

While the valve is off, connect the two pipes so that the heater will run without the valve; this will let you know if the valve was the only problem, or if there are other blockages along the line. If the heater gets up to full heat then happy days, problem solved.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

That’s a good suggestion, Colin, thanks. I haven’t started the car since hibernation and not planning to do until early April as I have a few commitments between then and now, albeit time on my hands today.

I can now blow through the valve but it’s far from clear. Moving the spring loaded control mechanism doesn’t as yet have any impact so there’s still a way to go. It’s currently soaking in boiling water. 

Any suggestions to free-up the intervals would be most welcome?

As I’m in no particular rush, I may simply leave it soaking in mild caustic soda for a day or two - thoughts?
 

 

[Pete Lewis]

the smiths valve is easy to strip down  the alloy body does attract a lot of aged corrosion 

the two halves are held by the claw and hook you can see on the body   

first mark the positions of the two parts   drill out the retaining rivet and might need some grips here but twist the halves to lear the claws and it is 

now cleanable , refit to align your marks  fit a rivet or small nut bolt  in the rivet hole  this just stops any cable action turning and causing a separation 

delaley valves are a different story 

if the rubber diaphragm has gone solid  best just get a new valve

 

Pete

[Wagger]

I soaked the one on my Vitesse in washing soda. Also boiled it on the barbeque hob for half an hour in this solution. Connected it to the outside tap and rinsed through under pressure, then repeated the hot soda treatment. It is still wprking three months on and moves freely.

My system was totally dry when my son found the car, so I used the latest anti freeze. All ok so far.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

if the rubber diaphragm has gone solid  best just get a new valve

Pete

That was what I was going to suggest, for peace of mind. Even if you clean the old one you're still at the mercy of the rubber seal, whatever condition that may be in.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

f the rubber diaphragm has gone solid  best just get a new valve

 

6 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

That was what I was going to suggest, for peace of mind. Even if you clean the old one you're still at the mercy of the rubber seal, whatever condition that may be in.

If Colin says get a new one it must be the best option, he is well known to prefer the repair when at all possible option.

I replaced mine as it was completely bunged solid, they aren't expensive ( Smith ones that is)

[Pete Lewis]

560611 around £26 + vat 

you wont save much by messing around with the blocked one 

Pete

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Thanks to all for helpful suggestions.

I drilled the rivet and open it.  Completely caked solid with 50 years of crud.   The membrane wasn't pretty, either.  Nevertheless, it clean-up reasonable well and now seems to work ok.

Job done, but I'll take your advice and buy a replacement, keep this one as a spare, or as my wife calls it "more junk cluttering the garage shelves"

Last question, the vee profile donut seal for the flange adapter - are these available, what can be used as an alternative?

 

[Pete Lewis]

pleased you had a go and got a result 

the replacements are fair quality so it will be fine to dump the junk 

just keep whats useful and dont fill the boot with spares you wont ever need 

Pete

 

[Colin Lindsay]

13 minutes ago, 1969Mk3Spitfire said:

Last question, the vee profile donut seal for the flange adapter - are these available, what can be used as an alternative?

Readily available; Part number A147 from Canleys, about 55p plus. (I hope; I use DG Heaters in all three of mine so haven't bought Smith's in years, but the description seems to be right)

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

dont fill the boot with spares you wont ever need

You know better than to say that surely 🤪

[Pete Lewis]

i manage to have just a very minimal tool kit  spare bulbs length of wire and a few cable ties 

no spares at all  yes i rely on if it wont get you home its time for recovery  I have faith in she will always bring us home 

so i dont carry spare  water pumps distributors fuel pumps or alternator  

in 20 years of classic Triumphs I only used recovery once when the diff front mounting bolt unscrewed and locked the propshaft 

that might have been an easy fix if i was not in my best shirt etc and carried a trolley jack  , more annoying  it was the wrong bolt used by a reputable supplied recon diff unit .

   we have some locals they complain about . "shes not going well " and the boot and back seats are full of god knows what weighs down the performance

and the paranoia and worry of taking 1/2 ton of spares you probably wont be able to fit on the roadside  must ruin  any day out   

these cars are reliable and quite capable of doing a good job ,  with good basic maintenance 

so to me its drive    smile       free of worry and  have an enthusiastic drive  without a ground anchor of spares in the back 

well its raining  

Pete

 

[68vitesse]

2 hours ago, 1969Mk3Spitfire said:

Last question, the vee profile donut seal for the flange adapter - are these available, what can be used as an alternative?

I just used a suitable o ring, I think this is what the usual suspects supplies these days.

Regards

Paul

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

well its raining  

Pete

I keep a brolly in the boot of my 13/60, it has been used on occasions!😁

[PeteH]

E#

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

I keep a brolly in the boot of my 13/60, it has been used on occasions!😁

Emergency substitute Hood?. Or just Auditioning for the local Am-Dram for the Gene Kelly Part?😁

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

sorry i only have cars  with a ROOF    !!!!!!!

Pete