Jezza Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 I had an MOT booked for my Mk2 GT6 so I thought with the nice weather it would be good to do a couple of runs in the car ahead of taking it in. First run last Tuesday was fine and everything worked well and I clocked up about 40 miles of A road driving, so not too onerous on the car following a couple of months parked up in the garage. The second run started off fine but I noticed after about 3 or 4 miles that the revs were running slightly high (about 1,100) at idle. I gave it a couple of dabs on the gas to see if that would then settle it down but it was still running the same. I kept driving and about 5 to 6 miles later I got to a set of lights on the A21 (just by the Chapter One restaurant, in case anyone knows the Bromley, Farnborough, Orpington area) and the car started running rough when I set off, almost like someone had flicked a switch. I struggled to get any power but the revs were responsive but eventually about 200 yards further up the road it died and I was stuck on a double red line route at the point (immediately outside the PRUH) where the lanes narrow from two to one. Great! Just where people set off from the lights and race to get in ahead of the person in the other lane before their lane disappears. After a bit of a panic I got the bonnet up and started looking for anything that might be out of place. Nothing on the road behind - no fluids, no parts dropped off - and no cables, wires or pipes lose or disconnected. After I scratched my head a bit and tried to work out what had gone on - and while trying not to be hit by said traffic caning it off the lights - I looked in the float chambers. Both barely had any fuel in (I had about 1/2 a tank in the car). Looked over the fuel lines to see if anything was disconnected - all connected and seemed fine. Next the fuel pump - roasting hot, but I assumed it would be just because it runs constantly. As it's a Facet electric fuel pump I assumed it is very reliable and with the regulator I have fitted it's been a very reliable setup. Anyway, after some faffing about it turns out the pump had packed up, and blown the 10A in-line fuse with it. Typically I didn't have a spare fuel pump or fuse so I called the emergency breakdown line that come with the insurance (I'm with Peter James). Got though to the AA who sent a patrol van. He confined my though that the fuel pump had packed up after he tried a replacement blade fuse and it didn't yield anything positive. However, he couldn't recover the car back home as it doesn't have any toe eyes and can't be towed on their two wheel cradle as the GT6 isn't on their database of compatible vehicles and thus not insured if they cause any damage. So instead he ordered a flatbed truck. Approx 1hr wait, which was fine and would make it 2.30pm. Weather was nice and the patrol helped my push the car into the PRUH entrance road off the A21. 70 mins went by and I called the AA back to see how long it would be.. ETA now 4.15pm. Argh, annoying but the suns still out, so no need to worry. Tick tock, tick tock. Called back at 4.30pm as still noone had arrived. "sorry, sir, ETA now 5.30pm. There aren't any vehicles available." Having got so pissed off I googled local recovery firms, called a couple and they had availability and were less than 10 mins away. So I called the AA back who said those companies probably weren't in their network and therefore they couldn't use them. At this point the ETA had been removed and the AA told me noone was on their way to pick me up. But they could get a flatbed to me for 11.30pm. Yes, 11.30pm, 11 and a half hours after first calling them! At this point I let the AA have both barrels and told them that I was organising the recovery with a local firm and they would be reimbursing me for the cost (£120 Inc vat, which I actually thought was quite reasonable). Reluctantly they agreed after I spoke to the supervisors supervisor. On the way home I get chatting to the recovery van driver who said that his company had turned down my job twice. "why's that?" I asked. "The AA (and RAC, and others) only pay about 60% of what we'd usually charge, so we just decline the work". Oh great! So, what's the point of the breakdown service if they won't actually recover the vehicle and I have to organise it myself? If it wasn't such a nice day I'd probably have complained earlier. Instead the customer is just left there like a lemon because the AA refuse to pay the third party's rates if they need to contract out the recovery work! So much for the 4th emergency service! Anyway I finally got home at 8.30pm with the help of Roadrunners recovery (who I'd highly recommend if you find your self stuck in the AA's web of woe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 That's a sad experience, I must admit I've sort-of been there ( a six hour wait for a suitable recovery vehicle for my GT6 back in the mid-1990s, there was only one available on the other side of the country and the poor man got me home at 3am. I then ripped the whatever out of it and asked him to have a look at my poorly Rover... he must have got back home about 5am or later. I did make him coffee, tho.) However: other side of the coin - when my Discovery blew a hose on the M6 en route to Stoneleigh I pulled over at Shap; a recovery vehicle was there within an hour and trailered me the entire way back to Stranraer (with a stop for a McDonalds en route as I was Hank Marvin) got me on the midnight ferry and at the other end another was waiting to take me home. I really couldn't fault it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 I would let PJ know their cover failed Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, Jezza said: I'm with Peter James). Got though to the AA who sent a patrol van. He confined my though that the fuel pump had packed up after he tried a replacement blade fuse and it didn't yield anything positive. However, he couldn't recover the car back home as it doesn't have any toe eyes and can't be towed on their two wheel cradle as the GT6 isn't on their database of compatible vehicles and thus not insured if they cause any damage. I got stuck in an hour long crawling traffic jam on the M4 and the GT6 blew it's head gasket. I phoned Peter James who sent an AA van and the GT6 went home in the two wheel cradle. I suspect you've been told some porky pies and a conversation with Peter James is required. The whole thing took 3 hours, not to bad, considering. I'd been on my way to Thames Area meeting and the lads brought me out a couple of bottles, which passed the time. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 The "two wheel cradle" type recovery Dolly. Are OK for anything except a rear wheel drive automatic. Which must be 4 wheels up OR have the prop shaft disconected. In America, they are in frequent use for transporting vehicles, I used a "U-Haul" one to bring the rental car back from Florida to Texas. BTW in the UK they are only legal for use in genuine recovery stuations. Not for general use. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, PeteH said: The "two wheel cradle" type recovery Dolly. Are OK for anything except a rear wheel drive automatic. Uncle Pete will be along shortly to tell you why the wheel cradle is NOT a good idea for our cars! Stand by! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: Uncle Pete will be along shortly to tell you why the wheel cradle is NOT a good idea for our cars! Stand by! Doug Grandads "tin" hat donned, awaiting incomming!. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: Uncle Pete will be along shortly to tell you why the wheel cradle is NOT a good idea for our cars! In uncle Pete's absence I will point out that the gearbox is splash lubricated by the layshaft, which is driven by the input shaft. When being towed, in neutral, on one of those cradles ("spectacle lifts" is another name for them) the main shaft is spinning inside all the gears with no lubrication. Fine for a few miles but not a good idea for any distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 I might just point out that the same "Splash" lubrication will occur regardless as to wether the Gearbox is being driven by the Engine or the rotation of the Propshaft. The exception being that the design of an Auto box, and the lack of splash to the torque converter, being what primarily precludes it being towed. I regularly "flat tow" ("A" frame) cars, as do others, behind my motorhome and have done many hundreds of miles accross Europe too. My Fiat Punto, went to Spain in this manner 3 years on the trot, and was sold for further use when the P-107 (semi Auto) came up. Smart cars are a favourite for this (pre 2008Models). Throughout North America, thousands of vehicles too are actually "flat towed" (all 4 wheels down) and do many thousands of miles. As I did with my Toyota Tacoma 4WD Truck (20Kmiles). This had well over 150.000 miles on it when my Son sold it, for near as much as I paid for it, and was still going strong. So in my personal experience the threat of damage to the gearbox is something of an urban myth. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 been out on Jo's 70 birthday outing to a steak house , a bit tough and ££££s but i didnt pay Jo used to do our club raffles till moved away yes its the lack of splash thats the concern as Rob says you are just spinning the mainshaft inside a set of stationary gear sets which is the opposite of its design it wont like the lack of lubrication its well above the oil level so any lube soon is spun out on autos a lot depends on the oil pump some are driven off the mainshaft some are from the input shaft so some will actually bump strat others impossible some make a electric pumped dribble with a pipe inside the box to keep it lubricated Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, PeteH said: might just point out that the same "Splash" lubrication will occur regardless as to wether the Gearbox is being driven by the Engine or the rotation of the Propshaft. You would be wrong to point that out as it's not true. When in NEUTRAL (which you WILL BE if being towed) the propshaft only spins the main shaft and NOT the gear clusters. There are some gearboxes designed to still be lubricated when towed like that but the Triumphs ones are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Could you not wedge the clutch pedal down and put the gearbox in gear, or would that be against health and safety?. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff.b Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 How about taking the plugs out and leave in gear lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted March 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Thanks all, I’ve already complained to the AA direct and it’s a good suggestion to let PJ know as well. I’ll do that this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 On 20/03/2022 at 17:38, Jezza said: can't be towed on their two wheel cradle as the GT6 isn't on their database of compatible vehicles and thus not insured if they cause any damage. Well, there's the root cause. Computer says no and it's more than the poor repair guy's life is worth to override it. He tows it, it breaks, AA says: "we didn't authorise it" and the poor man ends up being sued. It's not just the AA; walk into any motorfactors these days and they won't have any of our cars listed anywhere. Perhaps the Insurer should list it on the schedule, that "there is permission for this vehicle to be towed if..." etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 44 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Well, there's the root cause. Computer says no In fairness, the Green Flag man who attended my Toledo (fuel starvation, he thought blocked fuel line, later turned out to be a duff float valve) said he wouldn't want to tow it any distance on a front-end-lift precisely because he was concerned about the gearbox lubrication issue that PeteL and I have noted. He didn't specifically know whether it was an issue with a Triumph Toledo but he knew it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 If I may... When I had to be recovered twice in the space of 4 days, I found the AA impeccible. First one was 600 miles, only gripe is that it took so long as it involved about 6 trucks, sometimes with a 40 minute wait. But they did offer to give us a hire car and get the car back a few days later (I refused as I was off tote Spa classic a few days later) but they also agreed to get recovery arranged (usefully) for teh next morning, we had just limped to our final hotel, prepaid etc ad with friends, so got our moneys worth. Recovery driver arrived as arranged, I even managed to finish the cooked breakfast.... roll on 4 days, I had fixed the car, went out to fill up with duel for the Spa trip, had a loom fire. Apart from the recovery firm tellling me to reconnect teh battery so I could use the hazard lights (despite me explaining if I did that the car WOULD burn to the ground) the freindly AA man trned up after 40 mins, quick look, and popped the front wheels up on his natty towing dolly, dropped me home and helped push it in the garage. I took my toledo to Spa, and even did the track laps, entertaining as it rolled alarmingly, but we did overtake a LOT of cars in the bends, notably a very trick Honda S2000 who was VERY upset, and bravely whooshed off when we got to the straight... But I think the AA (and presumably others) do have times when they are stretched, and indeed are always keen to keep costs down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said: Well, there's the root cause. Computer says no and it's more than the poor repair guy's life is worth to override it. He tows it, it breaks, AA says: "we didn't authorise it" and the poor man ends up being sued. Colin, in similar circumstances I WAS towed by the AA on the same equipment. The AA took out a contract with Peter James and they failed to fulfil it, it would be the AA that gets sued. A point I would make to them in an assertive non-aggressive, but forceful manner should a similar situation arise. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 You could remove the propshaft, but... I also thought the small chassis diff needed to be parallel to the road as it starves the nose bearing of oil if put on a spectacle lift. could you tie steering wheel and lift the back wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, thescrapman said: could you tie steering wheel and lift the back wheels? That is certainly how friends MGBGTV8 was recovered from Classic Le Mans several years ago; if the lubrication set up in the gearbox/diff I know not. The recovery team were British and there specifically for the event and moved the car to a collection points where several were loaded on a lorry for the return to UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 TBF. I would, personally, not be concerned by towing any manual vehicle in Neutral. But that comes from my own experiences of having done so for many thousands of miles with a variety of vehicles. The exception being automatics (slush box type). The current Peugeot 107. Has done well over 1000miles flat towed in Neutral that is the Electronic semi Auto box. Scrapman`s suggestion of towing by lifting the rear, has been done many times in the recovery trade, quite common if fact where some truck/Tractor units with Split axles are concerned. The only time "we" did it was with a wrecked back axle on a Toyota Celica. The AA guy suggested it and we agreed. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 30 minutes ago, thescrapman said: You could remove the propshaft, but... I also thought the small chassis diff needed to be parallel to the road as it starves the nose bearing of oil if put on a spectacle lift. could you tie steering wheel and lift the back wheels? When I broke the 3.27 diff (actually the 3rd one, it got changed to a 3.63) in my vitesse, they did exactly that. There was no chance of it getting home on teh back wheels, so he tied the steering wheel, and lifted the rear. I think removing the prop would bee OK (though a faff) as the diff bearing won't be under any load. Not ideal, but it wouldn't worry me for normal recovery. Probably not 100's of miles though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 22 hours ago, dougbgt6 said: Colin, in similar circumstances I WAS towed by the AA on the same equipment. The AA took out a contract with Peter James and they failed to fulfil it, it would be the AA that gets sued. A point I would make to them in an assertive non-aggressive, but forceful manner should a similar situation arise. Doug It's only human to err on the side of caution, especially if you're the poor sod that has to make the roadside decision and the owner / driver doesn't know for sure. If the computer database doesn't confirm I still reckon some form of official documentation carried in the car or on a phone would be handy; if the recovery man is in any doubt he can be shown the part that says: "This vehicle is suitable for towing on a cradle" or similar. Even getting the driver to sign a disclaimer would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 on many trucks you have to drop the prop to tow for some years we had a tap in the clutch pipe so you could depress the clutch and turn the tap to lock it as disengaged select a gear and towing turned the gearbox and its oil pump what this did to the clutch disc if you went too fast was interesting Pete and there s no problem with a spectacle lift on the rear wheels providing you can lock or tie the steering to straight ahead you cant rely on castor in reverse to self centre ...makes for some fun if its left toits own devices Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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