Stratton Jimmer Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 Has anyone installed a Pertronix Ignitor system to replace their dizzy points? If so, did you have any problems with the installation or operation and specifically the coil? I ask because one of their documents says that it is wise to connect an ignition switched 12v supply to the red lead of the system which itself is attached to the red coil terminal. To my mind, this would by-pass any ballast resistor if a 6v coil is fitted. Here's the link to the document: http://www.pertronix.com.au/troubleshooting.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 I have an Aldon, AKA Pertronix mine is specifically for Ballasted system. If I understand correctly they're asking you to attach to the +ve of the coil which would be 12v at start up and 6v thereafter. I would double check you have a ballasted system Pertronix. They're very good, be careful to check timing once installed, mine was exactly right but that is unusual. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 the reason for a non ballasted supply to the unit is you can with a ballasted feed end up with being below the threshold workings of the unit and you get misfires from memory they are designed to operate on 6 to 18v so in a ballasted system and a poor battery state you can fall below the 6v limit you can still run a ballasted coil set up but the unit is best to have a 12v feed I have used a 12v 6cyl on the vit6 for 15 years completely trouble free , sold her and have no idea if its still ok retiming is essential as the orientation of the trigger magnets and the pick up position can be quite different to the orig points settings pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: they are designed to operate on 6 to 18v so in a ballasted system and a poor battery state you can fall below the 6v limit you can still run a ballasted coil set up but the unit is best to have a 12v feed Mine IS for ballasted system and operates from a lower voltage, I know this from when I accidentally ripped off one of the sensor wires flush with the sensor. I phoned Aldon and the spares department let me route through their spares database. There were different sensors for ballasted and non ballasted. However a quick look on the interweb and it's no longer available. Pertronix/Aldon appear to have rationalized the product line and things are now as Pete describes. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said: I ask because one of their documents says that it is wise to connect an ignition switched 12v supply to the red lead of the system which itself is attached to the red coil terminal. I suspect that's either a misreading or a mistranslation. As the others have said, the unit itself may not be happy with 6V - and it especially may not be happy with a supply that drops an recovers at twice (or thrice) engine revs. So you shouldn't connect the red wire to the coil on a ballast system - connect it to ignition switched 12V (the white circuit) instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 Pertronix recommend their Flamethrower 45000V coil for best results with the Ignitor II. I have this set up on my Mk2 GT6 and am very happy with it. Presumably you could go this route if you bypass the ballast resistor. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 there is a limit to what insulation can take on our old designs 45kv is way above the dizzy cap and rotor capacity designed to run at 22kv we have seen them all give problems when used on 12v fed 6v ballast coils i would be a bit cautious on using 45kv coils Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 Pertronix recommend a coil of 3 ohm resistance while I have found that the Viper VCE-MB coil I have is rated at only 0.7 ohm. I think this may be where my ignition problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: 0.7 ohm. ay only 0.7 you seriously up the amps by x4 and points burn and ,condensers will likely fail early the general rule is 12v use 3 ohm s and ballast use 1.5 ohms same applies if you run a ballast coil on 12v you double the HT and current and run a 12v coil on 6v you get weedy spark Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 38 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: rated at only 0.7 ohm As Pete says, not suitable. Old cars, with points or with crude electronic ignition, had to tolerate the coil being permanently on, at least for a minute or two. The standard setups Pete detailed both settle at around 4A through the coil, which gets it hot but not extreme. A 0.7ohm coil would settle at over 15A - you'll fry the coil, burn the wires and maybe set fire to stuff if that's left on. Such high current / low impedance coils are only suitable for modern vehicles with computer-controlled ignition and a guarantee of limited dwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Ian Foster said: Pertronix recommend their Flamethrower 45000V coil for best results with the Ignitor II. Ian, I have the Ignitor 2 plus 45011 coil (0.6 ohm) as recommended by Pertronix. I bought it from Aldon and after reading the above I phoned them and they said they've never had a problem and most OE systems are 0.6ohm. I do have Magnecor leads and multi electrode plugs and looking at my dizzy cap/rotor arm they look fine. I checked and my system is 12v unballasted. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 this seems a good way to melt the ignition switch contacts think some good luck is needed pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 It runs fine, the only thing it doesn't and never has done is start easily. When I bought the car it was on points and a sports coil of some manufacture but I put the poor starting down to other issues. I fitted the Pertronix and coil (much smoother tick over etc) and the starting was better but still needs cranking. Then it could be the WOSP starter as that makes a 'orrid whining noise...! How can it melt the ignition switch contacts? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 Pete I have a NOS distributor cap, red rotor arm, Magnacor leads and Boche triple electrode plugs, similar to Iain's spec and have not experienced any problems to date. The Pertronix is supposedly tolerant of the ignition being left on without the engine running. It will be interesting to see if the coil generates any significant heat in this situation I could definitely feel the improvement when I changed from a Lucas? sports coil. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 Also the Bosch plus are pre gapped at 0.9mm (35.4 thou) which is bigger than the standard plug hence more oomph required. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Ian Foster said: The Pertronix is supposedly tolerant of the ignition being left on That is supposedly the case with the Ignitor 2 system which has a microprocessor within it rather than the simpler Hall effect circuitry of the Ignitor 1. If you leave the ignition on with the engine not running with the Mk1 system, you will burn out the transistor according to Pertronix' own documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, NonMember said: The standard setups Pete detailed both settle at around 4A through the coil, which gets it hot but not extreme. Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 13 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time! I now understand the problem. Even if I upgraded the cable the switch is still vulnerable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 40 minutes ago, Iain T said: Even if I upgraded the cable the switch is still vulnerable Everything which is in series with the coil will be vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 14 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time! but surely that is only a fraction of the time? 1/4? if that? So on average just over 4A, which is OK. Or have I got that wrong? (of course, ignition left on=bad news!) My spitfire has a Modern (20 year old...) coilpack. Which is actually a pair of coils, fed with an ignition live, and 2 earths to trigger the spark. That thing can produce a 4" spark, and yet the cables appears to be 7-10A. However, as it is ecu controlled it can't get left on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Everything which is in series with the coil will be vulnerable. Thanks, I'll investigate further! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted March 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 21 minutes ago, clive said: However, as it is ecu controlled it can't get left on It is a different kettle of fish if the flow of current to the coil is controlled by an ecu but the Pertronix Ignitor version 1 has no such control and in consequence leaving the ignition on without the engine running can cause serious damage to both the unit and the wiring. In general, momentary pulses of high current are catered for by such things as slow blow fuses and are common enough across many electrical circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 19 hours ago, Iain T said: How can it melt the ignition switch contacts? simply by overloading the designed current capacity of the switch internals and anything within the circuit , not many ignition switches of the era will like 17 amps and probably made to stand 10 amp max or there abouts so the sweep contact can get hot melt the plastic base and the fixed contact stud sinks into the plastic base same thing happens with indicator and lamp stalks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said: It is a different kettle of fish if the flow of current to the coil is controlled by an ecu but the Pertronix Ignitor version 1 has no such control and in consequence leaving the ignition on without the engine running can cause serious damage to both the unit and the wiring. In general, momentary pulses of high current are catered for by such things as slow blow fuses and are common enough across many electrical circuits. Maybe it needs a relay, controlled by oil pressure switch so the actual coil etc is only on when the engine is running or at least 7psi oil pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Pertronix Ignitor version 1 has no such control a What about Ignitor 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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