Herald 13/30 accelerator cable bracket at manifold

[Colin Lindsay]

There are times I wish I'd stuck with 1200s... but: on the 13/60 manifold there's a bracket that takes the accelerator cable and the return spring rod. Mine will not tighten and moves about alarmingly when the accelerator is pressed. On the car, originally, the bracket on the cast manifold was snapped off and I assume it was overzealous tightening of the nut on the stud. I can't find any diagram of the setup at present but is there meant to be a spacer or spring that prevents movement? ( A few washers might suffice if there's not meant to be anything else).

[PeteH]

Just had a look at mine?. It`s hardened up and (very) tight.?

I am thinking, it may have to be hardened up BEFORE hardening up the Exhaust and Inlet manifold Bolts?.

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Looking at the two photos the bracket appears to be in different locations ie above and below the manifold lug, 

On aside I Never liked those inlet to exhaust joints as when tightened unless there an engineered fit they must try and rotate their manifold to head joint.

[steveo]

My bolt goes down with a nut under it, knowing my car its probably a historic bodge with 30+ years of rust holding it together !

 

[Colin Lindsay]

43 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

Looking at the two photos the bracket appears to be in different locations ie above and below the manifold lug, 

On aside I Never liked those inlet to exhaust joints as when tightened unless there an engineered fit they must try and rotate their manifold to head joint.

That's a good point! Is it meant to be between, or below? There's a substantial gap between the two manifolds and it lends itself to being in between, but I'm not familiar with the setup.

[Colin Lindsay]

15 hours ago, steveo said:

My bolt goes down with a nut under it, knowing my car its probably a historic bodge with 30+ years of rust holding it together !

 

Yours is also connected to the left-hand lug rather than the centre.... I'm wondering if that's an idea for mine... if it won't tighten up in the centre then move it? Food for thought... but the problem is that the inlet manifold cannot be tightened right down to meet the exhaust manifold, the gap is too great and something will give, as it was when I bought the car.

Pete's photo above seems to show the two meeting, but mine are almost half an inch apart and any attempt to draw either up or down will put a lot of strain on the head studs. As they are, they're a perfect seal against the head.

On another note I'm debating a smear of exhaust paste around the bracket as it sits; if it hardens under exhaust heat then the bracket will not move about...?

[PeteH]

What I know about My car, is that the head Has been off, as it was replaced with an "unleaded" conversion from Club Shop in the 90`s. I can only speculate that when reinstalling it the two manifolds where pulled up togther with Throttle bracket in between and the manifold bolts then hardened up?

Canley Show :- https://www.canleyclassics.com/?catalogue=triumph-herald-13/60&diagram=triumph-herald-13/60-manifold-details

But no indication that the bracket is monted there?. No  indication on the Accellerator Dig:- https://www.canleyclassics.com/?catalogue=triumph-herald-13/60&diagram=triumph-herald-13/60-acceleration-control 

I am inclined to the thought that the mount is supposed to be from where Stevo`s is? and not as Mine?. But why the stud and Nut Bolt on the centre in the first place?.

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Heat transfer from the exhaust manifold to inlet? the Spit 1500 has two such bolted lugs between the cast iron exhaust and alloy inlet manifolds. I don't think it has anything to do with structural support of the manifolds, the Mk2 Vitesse has no such lugs or boss's, and its a lot heavier.

When I built up a 1500 engine for the daughters Mk2 Spit (not fitted yet) the exhaust manifold lugs fouled the inlet manifold boss's rotating the inlet manifold up, so I had to trim the inlet boss's back and left a gap that I could fit an adjusted washer in the gap so there was no undue stress.

[PeteH]

8 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Heat transfer from the exhaust manifold to inlet?

I considered that too, but from a strictly engineering viewpoint such heat transfer surface is minimal?.  Maybe a hangover from earlier models of car which used the engine?. What is a puzzle too, would be the fact that C-I and Alloy, have different expansion rates, to the point that I would be reluctant to bolt them to gether, in two planes, if I was doing the designing?. Bit of a Mystery?, I wonder if anyone know`s the definitive answer?.

In Colin`s situation I would be inclined towards removing the stud (if possible) and fettling the bracket, interposing a washer and the rebolting. Or even putting a "c" washer in if the stub won`t come out?.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

In Colin`s situation I would be inclined towards removing the stud (if possible) and fettling the bracket, interposing a washer and the rebolting. Or even putting a "c" washer in if the stub won`t come out?.

Pete

C-washer or the like is an option; I don't really want to have to take both manifolds off again at this stage. The movement is really quite alarming, I must post a video.

[Josef]

2 hours ago, PeteH said:

I considered that too, but from a strictly engineering viewpoint such heat transfer surface is minimal?.  Maybe a hangover from earlier models of car which used the engine?. What is a puzzle too, would be the fact that C-I and Alloy, have different expansion rates, to the point that I would be reluctant to bolt them to gether, in two planes, if I was doing the designing?. Bit of a Mystery?, I wonder if anyone know`s the definitive answer?.

In Colin`s situation I would be inclined towards removing the stud (if possible) and fettling the bracket, interposing a washer and the rebolting. Or even putting a "c" washer in if the stub won`t come out?.

Pete

The connections between the inlet and exhaust manifold were billed as creating hot spots to aid fuel evaporation. At least on the Spitfire. My 13/60 came with twin SUs on a MkIV Spit manifold, and about half an inch is missing from the bottom of the posts on the inlet manifold. So whatever they do, or are supposed to do, the car can run happily without them!

[daverclasper]

On 03/05/2022 at 20:11, PeteH said:

I am thinking, it may have to be hardened up BEFORE hardening up the Exhaust and Inlet manifold Bolts?.

Never heard of this hardening before on manifolds/bolts etc. What is it please?

[Colin Lindsay]

i think I'd refer to it as 'tightened up' but I know what Pete means.

[daverclasper]

Ahh, thanks

[Chris A]

As it is Friday afternoon and I clean the engine bay of my 13/60 every Friday afternoon, like everybody else 🙄, I checked where the bracket is on it - second lug from left and on top. No idea if this is correct or not, who knows when has happened over the 50+ years the car has been on the road.

[Colin Lindsay]

30 minutes ago, Chris A said:

As it is Friday afternoon and I clean the engine bay of my 13/60 every Friday afternoon, like everybody else 🙄, I checked where the bracket is on it - second lug from left and on top. No idea if this is correct or not, who knows when has happened over the 50+ years the car has been on the road.

Thanks Chris; as there are 3 lugs I presume that's the centre one?

[Chris A]

54 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Thanks Chris; as there are 3 lugs I presume that's the centre one?

Second from left, couldn't see beyond that (easily) 👀

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, that's one question answered and it explains my problem!

The bracket originally had a second part attached which was shaped to hold it at the correct angle on the manifold. Mine doesn't hence a) the movement and b) the large gap. Now I know!

It's not shown in any of the parts catalogues I have (most of which are 1200 anyway), only the lever itself, so I couldn't work out what was missing from mine.

 

[PeteH]

I must have a closer look at mine now, I did not pick up on that.

what I now notice Colin,  is that mine is below the exhaust  manifold not between the inlet/exh manifolds?

Pete