micmak

Ha ha! I think you are right, Pete. The little beggars DO listen, and they try to trick us! Just wait and see, the next time I start the car it will probably run like crap! Nah, I know it will be fairly good. It might need a tiny little adjustment. But after all, it is a 57 year old car. I needed adjustment myself when I reached 57!

Alright Guys, now that my fuel/choke/overflow carb problems SEEM to be resolved, I need to turn my attention to another problem. Since I bought the car last year (only 500 or so miles ago), there has been a noise from the rear. At first, I wondered if it was a wheel bearing. Some friends said that my description of the sound suggested a wheel bearing. But I have my doubts. In the past, on other cars, I had wheel bearings fail. The sound was a constant drone-like, humming noise that got louder as you drove faster. I used to describe it sounding like a plane coming in low over your car! But this noise on my little Vitesse is different. It is not constant. It is a “rubbing” type sound that happens over and over again as the wheel revolves. If I go faster, the sound is more frequent. If I go slower, it is less frequent. It is on the passenger side rear wheel area. If I turn left, shifting the weight of the car off that wheel, it gets louder. If I turn right, putting weight ON that wheel, it goes away completely. If I am going straight, it may be audible depending on whether my last bend on the road was to the left or to right. Does that description suggest a wheel bearing to you Guys? What might it be?

Hi Guys, long time no talk. Today was a really nice day for the first time in weeks. The roads were nice and dry! I started up the Vitesse for the first time since a week or so before Christmas. It started perfectly. I let it sit there on high choke for a while, then gradually pushed the choke in over a 5, 6, or 7-minute period, as you might normally do. When it was warmed up, it idled very nicely. So, I went for a drive. I stopped at the fuel station and again at a local shop. It started perfectly again at both locations. It drove very nicely. And when I got home it still idled nicely, if a little high. It sounds nice and even, and the performance when driving was just perfect. The round trip was only about 20kms, but still, this is the first time I actually drove the car after several adjustments to the carbs. I think, I THINK I might have solved my problems. I am almost afraid to say that out loud, but it really drove and behaved so well. I might play with the slightly high idle. Or I might not. I dunno. I adjusted the cable a little to try to get the idle down a bit. I mentioned before that all the idle screws are not touching the castings, so it would imply that the cable needed adjusting. My adjustment today made little difference. I might disconnect it and try to spray oil into the cable sheath to lubricate it to see if that will bring down the idle a smidge. In the meantime, so what if it idles slightly high? The car runs so well now aside from that very minor annoyance.

Iain, Yes, I mean the throttle stop screws. I did as you described to balance the carbs, and the choke screw is well out of the way when warmed up. The spring on the throttle cable is attached perfectly and it’s strong. But the idle does not want to return to a complete idle when the revs die down. I can press against any of the idle screws with my finger, and the idle will die down. It’s as if it is stuck, somehow. But yet, there is nothing stopping the throttle stop screws from returning to their normal resting place. …..Mick…..

Hi Guys, well today was not as bitterly cold as recent times, so I went out to the car. I loosened the coupling clamp between the carbs and I adjusted the idle screws as Pete described and retightened it. I was happy that the carbs looked equal. I started the car. It started perfectly and I was able to reduce the choke to a nice comfortable high -but not too high- idle. It warmed up nicely and idled perfectly with no choke. Then I realized that when I revved up the car, it didn’t return to the same idle: it remained a little higher. I noticed that the idle screws were not actually touching the casting at all. I was able to push them back by hand to lower the idle. I played around with the coupling clamp a few times to readjust, and finally I was comfortable with the idle and the level it returned to after revving up. The car idled so nicely. I didn’t drive the car, but after about 20 or 25 minutes of running, I was pleased with the idle and the general sound. I might take it for a drive tomorrow, I’ll see.

Pete, initially, this seems very complicated. But when you take a moment and really study it, it more or less makes sense. I am no mathematician, surveyor or geometrist (is that even a word???), but what you are saying makes a certain amount of sense to me. I will put it on the back burner for now. I have more pressing issues like the proper running of the car and then the panel alignment. But I look forward to trying to address this issue over the next couple of seasons (probably in the Summer). I think it is a manual thing that needs no specific instruments or machinery. I’m sure they didn’t have such instruments back when these little cars were built. I like to consider myself to have reasonable intelligence, so it can't be TOO difficult. I will consult you and the other Gentlemen when I am at a point where I am ready to make these adjustments. Thank you, Pete. …..Mick…..

Ha ha, well, they succeeded!

OK, I just need to understand this a bit more. Pete, are you saying that the positive camber is caused by incorrect toe? How can the incorrect direction (straight or un-straight) of a wheel impact its camber (tilted in or out)? And further still, how can a lowering block between the diff and the spring correct it? I can see that some sort of lowering block might correct the camber, but surely that has nothing to do with the toe? And are you telling me that I need to get a bunch of beefy people into my little car before deciding if I have a problem or not??😄 By the way, this is not going to be a tomorrow or the next day kind of issue. Once I have the car running properly and no longer dumping fuel, I hope to then adjust the body panels to allow the doors to close properly. THEN, rear wheel camber will be my next challenge - probably not before next Summer. .....Mick.....

I'd like to know why so many drivers from my childhood revved up and then turned off the engine as the revs died. What was their reasoning? There must have been some recommendation or direction from car manufacturers for so many drivers to adopt this habit. .....Mick.....

No fuel leak, Iain. Admittedly, I didn't run it long enough to warm up and run without the choke, so it was not any suitable test for the leak problem. As soon as this cold spell passes, I will take it out for a drive and hopefully that will test it for the leak/fuel dump. And I think I will continue with my shut-down procedure that I have used all my life: just turn it off!!! No revving up beforehand, no nothing. Just turn the key! 😁 .....Mick.....

I have noticed that most Vitesses and Heralds have very positive camber on the rear wheels. However, I think my Vitesse is exceptional positive. It really looks weird that the tops of the wheels are so far out compared to the bottom. And I noticed that it is worse if I have reversed the car, and stopped. If I go forward a foot or so, it seems to be ever so slightly closer to zero, but only a tiny bit. I understand that part of the restoration of this car included a new rear spring. When I bought the car, the seller said that the positive camber was because of the new spring and it would settle in time. Not sure if I believe him. If I were to drive the car as a daily car to and from work, in traffic, and on the main roads, it might settle after a few years. But as a toy car that will only come out a half dozen times a year, I can’t see it settling anytime soon. Is there any adjustment I can make, or should I just ignore it? .....Mick.....

I didn’t DO anything to the car today, but I was curious to see how it would start after yesterday’s carb reassembly and re-tuning. It needed a FULL choke to fire, but I was immediately able to push it in to a comfortable high idle. It did idle a little lumpy, but it is a cold day and the car is sitting in an uninsulated garage. I was pleased enough, so I turned it off. It got me thinking back to my childhood. My Mother always had a procedure for turning off the car. She used to rev up the car once, and as it died down, she’d turn the key to kill it. I remember a lot of neighbors doing the same thing when I was a kid. Is that the proper, or accepted way to turn off a car from the 1960s? I have another question about wheel geometry, but I’ll start a new thread for that. .....Mick.....

I love your descriptive words, Pete; Wooly and Sputter! When you say loosen one of the coupling clamps, I presume you mean the linkage joining the operation of the two carbs? Sort of separate them from each other?

Yes Iain, I DID use PTFE tape around the needle valve. But I didn’t just lash it on casually. I carefully made a “cover” for the existing washer, and I made sure to tidy off any scraggly ends that might have come loose and lodged into the valve causing it to stick open. I noticed the rear air piston being slightly higher than the front too, but as it seemed to be running quite well, I left it alone. I put new oil in the dampers a few weeks ago. I have no access to a meter to measure the air flow, so I really can’t do the adjustment you described. All I can do is the old-school visual and sound test. At this stage, I am a bit less concerned about getting the adjustment perfect, and more concerned about whether one of the carbs will dump fuel again or not. Will it dump fuel tomorrow or will it behave for weeks and weeks and then suddenly dump fuel again? I guess only time will tell. .....Mick.....

carbs2.mov

carbs.mov

So, today I reassembled the carbs. I reattached the fuel lines. I wondered what was the best way to tune the carbs and get the correct fuel mix. I turned in the jets fully in, and then backed them off 3 turns before trying to start the car. It started but it needed FULL choke. I figured it was too lean if it needed SO much choke, so I gradually gave each carb a little more juice. By the time it had warmed up to normal temperature, it was idling reasonably well. I turned the jets a tiny bit more to give them a smidge more fuel. It idled nicer. All this was with no air filter attached. I was waiting for a fuel dump and I wanted to see it first hand with NO air filter in the way. I let it idle for about 15 minutes occasionally revving it up. No over spill. I decided that I had better attach the air filter as it might affect the fuel mix if the air had to be pulled through two filters as opposed to wide-open unfiltered air supply. I attached the filters with the engine running and there was no difference in the idle sound. I did Pete’s little “test” of raising the spring-loaded pin at the side of the carbs. There was a VERY slight lowering in idle, but so little, it is hardly worth mentioning. So I figured it is not far from ideal. An ideal idle!😆 I let it sit there running for over a half hour in total. I revved it up a few times. No overspill of fuel at all. So, I am confused. Have I cured this fuel dumping issue, somehow? Was there a tiny weep in one of the needle valves and by adding a home-made washer of PTFE tape, I stopped it? Is one of the needle valves defective, resulting in it sticking open occasionally, and it just happened to behave today? Was there a tiny sliver or other dirt that I didn’t actually see, but I cleared it out with all my prodding and poking around over the last few days? I don’t know whether to consider the problem to be solved or not. I didn’t drive the car today. I will do so as soon as this cold spell passes and we get a reasonably mild day. But I am pleased to have the car back together.

Ha ha!!! I love it. No, I am not doing it because anyone is watching. If I get it to the point I was at a few days ago, where it runs and eventually overflows, I will be kinda satisfied for a little while. But I hate the idea of leaving it as it is now, with carbs half dis-assembled and the fuel lines propped up at such an angle that I cannot close the bonnet, and tools all scattered over the floor and the bench. The poor little car deserves a little more respect than to abandon it in such a dismantled state. .....Mick.....

I went to my local mechanic this morning. He didn’t have the correct size O-ring. He recommended a local motor factors that I wasn’t aware of. I went there, and he had the correct O-ring. Yay! So now I am home. If I can withstand the cold this afternoon, I will go out and try to reassemble the carbs and connect the fuel lines, and at least get back to where I was a couple of days ago, with a running car that has overflowing carbs!

Ah, ok. I thought it NEEDED or HAD-TO-HAVE a fibre washer. OK, that’s good to know. Now I need to try to locate a new O-ring. Burlen don’t seem to have the O-ring or a kit. I tried Rimmer, Canley, Ang, COH Baines. Nobody seems to do kits for my carbs. Gonna visit my mechanic in the morning to see if he can provide a suitable O-ring.

It wasn't too inclined to slip over the O-ring and I was kinda afraid to force it, so I removed the jet housing too just to be in the safe side. Can you lubricate that particular o-ring? When it is dry it doesn't like to cooperate.

Dammit! I forgot to do that. .....Mick.....

Wow, what an afternoon. I disconnected the fuel lines to the carbs. I took the bowls off both carbs. Both float valves are freely moving and were the right way up - not upside down. I removed the needle valves. There was no fibre washer on them. There was just an aluminum-type washer. It was a crush-type washer. I did what will horrify some of you and others will shrug your shoulders; I used plumbers tape to “make” a gasket in addition to the aluminum one. I blew out the chamber where the needle valve sits and I was able to see with my trusty mirror and a light that the whole port, right out to where the fuel hose connects to the carb, was clean and clear on both carbs. I reassembled the valves and bowls. I had trouble getting the brass fuel jet back into position on both carbs. I had to loosen the adjuster right out so my nice even idle that I had yesterday will be gone again!!! As I was trying to get the jet back in on the LHS carb, I dropped it. My question now is: how far can a tiny O-ring travel? The little O-ring that goes where the arrow is pointing in my pic below is now missing! I spent over an hour crawling around the garage floor looking for it. Did it roll away into a corner? Is it caught in the chassis somewhere? Who knows. So I guess I need to go online and order a whole kit to make sure that I get the right sized O-ring! This very effectively halted my progress today. I hate that I have to suddenly stop now and send off for a kit and wait for a week or more. Arrrrgh!!!!

OK, thanks Johny. I will check the float valves first (to be totally sure they are not upside down) and also try to make sure there are no slivers in the line to the carbs. Thanks. .....Mick.....

Pete, will cardboard really work? I just looked at a cereal box a moment ago, and I measured the thickness with a calliper. I will need about 5 or 6 pieces sandwiched together to get between 2 and 3 mm. Surely that will allow a serious leak down the side of the engine block? .....Mick.....