Kevin Atkins

Yes, I've been advised to retorque after about 500 miles?

A happy ending - touch wood! New head gasket fitted, plus four new core plugs on the block behind the exhaust manifold.. I'm so thankful for the tip on those - three were OK / passable and looked like they had been changed at some point but the fourth.. as I scraped the paint away to examine, it was very rusty and immediately started weeping. I changed all four to be safe. All back together, cooling system carefully filled according to earlier posts, new radiator cap and the flange carefully flatted, new thermostat just in case, tappet clearances set, runs great and no sign of any of the earlier problems - no excess pressure left in the cooling system after running the engine and allowing to cool, no burst hoses, all seems fine. The compression test readings are still a little lower than before though.. I'm beginning to suspect either the gauge, or I might not have got the valve clearances spot on? The car runs just fine though, so very happy. Thanks for all the support!

Yeah, possibly a combination of all three - guess if the stock continues to sell there's no incentive to do better, and they're pretty much the only items available new from what I can tell.. I suppose if they're going on lovely old cars that only come out in fair weather they're better than nothing but mine is / will be used in all weathers. I semi-deliberately chose a less than perfect car (it's turned out considerably less perfect than I was intending tbh!!), felt it would have been wrong to buy a minter and then have it deteriorate in everyday use, no garage, etc.. The back of the packaging states they're a fit for 'GT6 Mk 2 69 - 71'.. so not sure about Heralds. Mine's a Mk 3 GT6 but they went on fine, and I think the Mk 3's had even more curvaceous windscreens than the earlier ones? They're a 12" blade. Might still be worth a punt though - seem better made than the new stuff too.

@Nigel Clark @Gully - pleased to report that the Trico B6 curved screen wiper blades work perfectly, new old stock bought from eBay. Battle tested in today's heavy showers.. finally I can feel confident driving in the rain. Thanks for the tips, this will make the car much easier to live with - the new stuff being sold by the various parts suppliers is useless.. it looks nice but is unfit for purpose in my opinion.

Thanks Johny, that's a really good call - just been out to have a look and said core plug does look a bit grotty, to the extent that there seems to be some pretty deep pitting, definitely not worth chancing.. I'll get the core plugs changed, thanks for the heads-up on this!

I think, hope and pray it's the right one - recessed Payen for a late car. I'm no motor engineer, but the recessed fire ring head design seems like a really nice bit of design to me the layman!

🙂 .. Yeah, I became quite adept at doing head gaskets on Minis back in the day.. a couple I owned shot their gaskets, seemed to be a 'Mini thing' and part of the charm.. This hasn't been as bad a job as I was thinking it might be - much bigger engine than an A Series, I was envisioning having to call in help to lift the head off but it was lighter and less cumbersome than I was anticipating. Got new studs, nuts and hardened washers on order - three of the studs in particular, adjacent to the exhaust ports, were very stubborn and the stud extractor jaws left some pretty deep gouges so I thought it better safe than sorry, just order new (they're not exactly cheap though.. ouch!). Just need to finish cleaning up the mating surfaces, and the pistons are covered in coke so I might clean that off while I'm at it.. I could get carried away but the engine seems otherwise healthy, bores look good, so I'll leave everything else alone I think! Cheers, Kevin.

Thanks for the tip Ian, appreciated.. I don't want to be doing this again any time soon! Head is off, which is a relief as I'd read some stories of real grief budging it, but a lump of wood and mallet shifted it once I'd got the studs out. Cheers, Kevin.

Yeah, kind of worth a try.. I was hoping it might work but as it is, I'm not going to chance running it, just asking for bigger trouble otherwise I think. And it's another learning experience - I've kind of got more of an intimate knowledge of this little car since owning it than any other I've owned.. back end rebuilt, took a couple of tries to sort that - the nagging feeling I've not done it quite right, go back and rework as necessary, now it's spot-on - drives down the road turbine smooth. That's also thanks in no small part to the sterling work Mike Papworth did on the diff + gearbox rebuilds! But I really, really want to be able to jump in and just drive it now!

Yeah there were a few replies in quick succession 🙂

I think Pete's explanation a couple of replies above makes sense, I can't remember whether the reasoning was mentioned in the video, and all cars are different I guess (especially Citroens 😜 ) Here's a link to said video -

Thanks Ian, Yes, if only for peace of mind, at this point I think I've got to pull the head and make sure everything's in order. I will be making close reference to all the posts in this thread regarding cooling system bleeding though, so I get it right. I've got a feeling the head has been off at some point before though - some washers were either missing or of differing type on the rocker pedestals.. But it's unlikely the head has been removed in at least the last 20 or so years as the car has been out of action for a long time, so hoping it's not too much of a job to get it off! Cheers, Kevin.

I think my mistake was that I loosened all the head nuts, rather than just doing one by one.. so whatever you do, don't do that! Do it one at a time - I've just watched a YouTube video of a chap doing exactly what you're about to do on a Citroen DS following a recent HG change, and he went through each nut in turn in the correct tightening order, backed off a quarter turn with a breaker bar, then re-torqued, and moved on to the next

Hi Ian, Yes it's a late Mk 3 - I've got two Haynes manuals (one was a Christmas present..), the first manual is an older imprint that doesn't appear to cover the later cars properly (even though the cover shot is a Mk 3), the second manual is an up-to-date edition that I found some additional data in for the Mk 3's .. and exactly as you and Johny suggest, 44 lbft is too low.. I hadn't realised, nor was I aware of the different rad cap ratings for the different iterations - I'm pretty sure I put a 13 lb cap on but I've ordered another 13 lb to be certain, and also in case the rad cap is a factor in all this.. Anyway, I torqued the head nuts up to 70 lbft earlier, pedestals to 30 lbft, and checked valve clearances after doing this - all seem pretty much on the nose at 10 thou, so it looks like the head is now fastened down correctly and valve gear is fine. However, compression readings remain a good 20% lower than they were before I stupidly released all the head nuts instead of one-by-one, so I think I've probably messed up the sealing.. I fear I'm going to have to take the head off now to sort this out, stupid rookie mistake.. Still very much learning the ropes with this, and still learning about the subtle differences between the model years etc. Really appreciate the help and support everyone has given me, making plenty of mistakes but trying to learn and correct as I go!

Thanks Iain, there were no spacers - I did take care to clean all oil from the mating faces so the pedestals went on and seated metal on metal so to speak.. when I removed the rocker assembly there were puddles of oil left on the pedestal mating faces. I'll check the valve clearances in the morning, it'd be great if it's just a case of resetting clearances! Cheers, Kevin.

Hi Iain, I didn't run the cooling system up to full pressure before, the cap was removed, although coolant colour is normal so I don't think there's been any cross-contamination. Just rechecked the compression on a couple of cylinders with the engine now tepid and they're the same as before. The compression tester is a cheap Chinese thing from Amazon but it's the screw-in variety. Mindful of it likely not being particularly accurate, but the changes in readings are what have caught my eye, both before / after head re-torque, and also the lower reading on cylinder 5 from when I tested a few months ago. The only other thing I can think of is maybe I've disturbed the valve clearances and possibly valves are now not closing fully? But that'd have to be quite a shift in gasket compression I'd think to eliminate 10 thou? I'm minded to pull the head - I've possibly made work for myself but it'll be an interesting exercise I guess.. I've done Minis before, so hoping this is similar, if a little bigger! I think as I've disturbed things, and maybe fouled up, I'm not confident of it holding up. This car hadn't run in over 10 years when I bought it, and there have been many issues so far, I haven't really had an opportunity to drive it regularly and get a proper 'feel' for when things are failing, which has made fault diagnosis difficult, beyond finding obvious problems like the external leaks, and I'm short on experience and knowledge, so it's been an interesting ride 😜 I really should have spent more on a better car at the outset, but that's hindsight..

Here's an update on today's progress.. With engine cold, I re-checked cylinder compressions, throttle wide open. Apart from cylinder 5, which measured 112 psi, the others were in the range of 130 - 140 psi. I re-torqued the head nuts - not sure if I might have messed up, but here's what I did.. working in reverse sequence according to the Haynes manual, I slackened off all the nuts by half a turn. Doing this resulted in all the nuts ending up actually quite loose. I then re-torqued each to 44 ft lb in the sequence given in the manual, then reassembled everything, torquing the rocker shaft pedestals to the figure given in the Haynes manual (25 ft lb). I then re-checked cylinder compressions - all now in the range of 105 psi to 117 psi (cylinder 5 was now actually the highest reading at 117 psi), so overall down somewhat on before.. Not too encouraged by this to be honest.. Maybe I should have slackened and re-torqued each nut one-by-one? Anyway, I dressed the radiator cap flange per Ian's recommendation - there were some high spots where paint thickness varied, so I flatted to give a nice even ring of brass showing. Carefully refilled system and ran engine up to temperature with the cap off. No evidence of bubbling into the coolant, even with the thermostat open, so kind of as before I think. Just debating whether to risk a short test drive and then re-check cooling system once it's cooled down? The compression test results are a little worrying and concerned I might end up with the HG giving out completely and ending up with mayonnaise in the cooling system...

Thanks for the heads-up on that Iain. Thanks Ian, I did the test dry, but throttle was closed on all cylinders - not sure if I've got that wrong? I can re-test with throttle open if that's the correct way to do it. Also thinking of maybe try re-torquing the head as well, and run compression test again afterwards? Only thing that slightly worries me is if there has been a blow on the HG due to maybe slightly relaxed torque, the fire rings on the HG might have been damaged so any 'fix' by re-torquing might only be temporary? .. but I'd love to not have to take the head off if I can get away with it. Also noted re. the rad cap - I can try another one, and I'll check the mating face on the radiator too..

Just done a compression test, which seems to have yielded a conclusive result, I think - all cylinders except 5 are showing 145 - 150 psi, which agrees with the results from when I did a test about 6 months ago. Cylinder 5 is showing 125 psi... to me that looks like it's down a bit more than simple measurement error? Looks like I'll be taking the head off I guess.. Am I OK just buying a full gasket kit (Payen?) or is it recommended to get the studs / nuts too? I'd probably be buying from Rimmers or Paddocks as Canley Classics are away on holiday this week (and I've got this week off work)

Thanks Gully - I think I did it this way but I might have filled too fast and trapped air in there.. I'm kind of hoping it is an air lock and not head gasket.. but gut feeling and other replies suggest it might be the HG.. but I'll get some compression tests done too, and try re-torquing the head

Thanks for the really detailed reply Ian, that's very helpful as I'm not sure I've got all the air out of the system - the real trouble has started after replacing the heater matrix, so whilst the system is now fully fluid tight (well, it was until the hose burst 😉 ), it's entirely possible I've not bled it properly, especially having read the care you've taken when doing the same. The system is fitted with a 13 lb cap I think, bought from Paddocks if I remember correctly. I've also used an 82 degree stat, and the temperature gauge has always registered just above the 'quarter' mark on the dial in normal driving - it had hit past the half-way mark when I noticed steam pouring out from under the bonnet on my drive when it boiled over after a ~ 3 mile drive. Could I rig some sort of bleed valve into the thermostat housing to inlet manifold hose, to achieve the same thing as your tapping into the housing? Paddocks mention a radiator bleed hose too but I'm not sure where / what that is..

Good idea, I'll give that a try - is there a particular way to bleed the cooling system when filling from completely empty? On an old Rover Metro I had years ago, the heater hoses had bleed valves in them and it was a cinch to get the cooling system operating correctly (and also, none of the mythical K-Series head gasket issues ever encountered) Yeah I was wondering that, maybe only happening when hot.. Retorquing the head bolts sounds like a good plan too, nothing to lose anyway! I did do a compression test a few months ago, albeit dry so not testing for leakdown, and the figures were all within a few percent of each other so the top-end seemed healthy enough then. I think I'll try another compression test too though. Thanks for the replies gents, appreciate the help and moral support!

Afternoon all, Oh dear, my GT6 experience has so far been one of maximum pain... As part of restoration work, I have fitted a number of new parts to the cooling system - New water pump; New radiator (was leaking); New radiator cap; New thermostat (with poppet valve to allow air bleed); New heater matrix (also was leaking); New hoses; New bypass pipe (stainless steel, original was leaking); New heater control valve . Since doing this, I have been through two top hoses, which have both split along the seam. I did notice that after running the engine for a short period to check for leaks, a few days later there was still excess pressure in the system when I removed the radiator cap. This seemed a bit odd - I would have expected pressure to have equalised to atmospheric pressure after cooling down fully.. I have, I believe, bled the system correctly but it's possible there is still an air lock; the other possibility I thought maybe the head gasket is blowing into the cooling system? But starting from cold with the radiator cap off, I'm not seeing any evidence of bubbling into the coolant, so it's a puzzle. But for two hoses to let go, something is clearly wrong and there's excess pressure in there - still not sure why the rad cap didn't open and vent through that but there we are. All ideas welcome - at this juncture and having spent more time under the car than driving it over the last six months, I'm getting close to the limit of what I can endure, both financially and the amount of time I've sunk into it..

Thanks for all the replies everyone - the spiral gear wear fix is useful to know, although for now the wiper gearbox side of things seems to be OK; it's the poor wipe performance, and it looks like Nigel is having the same issue. I have ordered a set of NOS Trico 'Curved Screen Blades' on Gully's recommendation and will let you know how they perform - with this week's weather forecast it looks like it won't be too long before I get an opportunity to try them out!

Hi @JohnD - thanks for your reply. Sorry, should have mentioned, the wiper arms have also been replaced. I thought the lack of spring pressure might have been the issue but there's no difference with the new wiper arms, and the arm to spindle fitting seems fine too, no play.