68spitfire

Hi Richard, Andy You both make valid points and observations. I have never been a 'concourse' person, so I am not really interested in polishing my engine or little seen suspension components, however I do like the car to be presentable. Not saying the car looks like a shed, which is does not. But would benefit from a little 'professional' fettling I believe. As for value, I don't really think that our cars (I say our cars as in Triumph generally, not TR's ) have really appreciated in value over the last ten to fifteen years. Honestly I cannot see them getting any more valuable. Thats why we look after them for the joy if using them opposed to monetary motives. Difficult decisions, to restore and keep, restore and sell, or sell and buy something in better fettle.

Hi all, This will open a can of worms no doubt. I will cut right to it. I have owned my 68 Spitfire for nearly 3 decades, and spent the first 10 years restoring it all by myself in a garage. Everything was done to the best of my ability, including bodywork and paint job. To be honest, the paint job looked pretty damn good considering it was done with cans all those years back. Not the typical can Finnish but quite a reasonable shine to it. Anyway, another 17 years have past and the bodywork is in need of some TLC, though we are still rust free. The clear coat has yellowed (white car) and I do like the colour (now) actually as it has a very light sort of Jasmine-esq colour. The filler I used to blend panels has shrunk down slightly and contracted with the effect of causing cracks to the paint. To be honest, I now am not cut out for a full body refurb in the garage again. I have neither the stamina or the fitness to do it. Mechanical / electrical stuff of any sort is not a problem, it is my bread and butter. So the question, is a professional body restoration worth the money, of should I let the car move on to someone with the skills and desire to make a good job of it. Mechanically the car is 99% right. Its only done 4100 miles in those 17 years and the engine and everything else is sweet. I contacted a long standing and reputable Triumph restoration specialist on the south coast and with a finger in the air estimate (without seeing the vehicle) of the work that would be required i.e. new panels to remove all the repair stuff etc. I was told that their body restorations including paint would start at £5000 Now I am not questioning that quote as I have seen their work, they have a talent for excellence. But do I want to pay that? for a car that would probably never re-coup that investment? I know it boils down to how much you love the car and how long you are going to keep it. Anyone else gone through the same decision and took the plunge for a professional job after owning a car for some time. Your thoughts welcome.

Thanks Gully thats good to know.

Yes I was logged in. Been a member since 1989. Filled in all the required bits including the catchpa thing and it kept asking about a "comments field" Anyway, will contact the shop direct by phone. Just need to clear things up before I go ripping paint off. Thanks.

Can I enquire as to wether anyone has reported any compatibility issues with the use of Club Shop Aerosol paints and primers obtained from other suppliers for example Halfords. I need to do some re-spraying and I just don't want to get stuck into it with Halfords primer and find that the club paint does not like it. I believe that the shop may be expanding to supply aerosol primer as well, if so any timeline on this. I did try to email the shop by the website contact form but it kept popping up a box with something about the need to fill the "comments box" ?? with at least 250 Characters ?? Whatever.... I have posted on here.

Hi John, Many thanks for the info. Been that long since I had a door totally stripped I could not remember the setup. interestingly I could not see a separate threaded plate for inside the door on the parts list, hence me thinking it was just weld-nuts and no adjustment there. Anyway, something to play with next weekend. Thanks. Rich.

Hi all, Been tinkering with the car today and decided that the doors need a little adjustment. I have shims under the hinge to body mounting points that give me in-out and top to bottom alignment. I also realise that I have a little front to back adjustment in this area to. What I was wondering, as I cannot remember and cannot see any images on a google search is do the hinges where they fit to the door have any adjustment or were they bolted straight into weld-nuts in the door, so no adjustment? Years since I had it all part for restoration and something I cannot remember without taking a hinge off. Regards, Rich.

Fresh update on the saga. Checked the valve guides and nothing seems out of order, besides if I had a loose one I would expect blue smoke through oil induction. Done the pour neat petrol ( read: carefully dribble fuel ) over all of the gasketed joints on the carbs to manifold and manifold to block. Also dribbled petrol over the throttle spindles and around the engine breather connection. No response to any of that so I am assuming I have no vac leaks. Checked the float chambers again and float heights. I did find that one was about a millimetre to 1.5mm out ( high fuel level ), cannot remember it being like that before. The front carb has always had a damp appearance in the bore all the time, even when the car was running ok. Done a carb reset by the book. Levelled jets to top of bridge and down two turns. Ran up car, balanced airflow then adjusted mixture by lifting pins. Initially I lifted one carb and when rich moved both carbs leaner by the same amount until I got close as I was concerned about one over rich and the opposite cylinders feeding off of it via the balance tube. Got near on the correct lifting pin response and then done carbs individually. I then checked the results with colortune. Only had to move about 1 flat leaner to get the colour tune to look more or less right, just a slight hint of yellow. Did not go to far as it made the lifting pin test read weak. At least now the lifting pin test and colour tune results are very close, unlike previous when they were totally out of wack. Have not taken the car out on the road yet as no room to move my other car out, to much traffic parked. The car does seem to idle better now, so it could have been the front carb overflowing a tad making the false reading via balance tube. Need to get the car out and report back. Oh and if it pulls ok, get a long run in so I can check the plug colours. Rich.

Hi Pete, I had the rocker box off the other day and checked the tappets which to my surprise had not moved at all since the last time. Did not notice any valve guide issue though I was not looking for it. I did suspect the emissions EGR system thing with the diaphragm on the inlet manifold, but the diaphragm is in tack and only about 18 months old, the unit is clean and appears to work fine, even the little flappy valve down in the base of the unit. With the engine running and removing the rocker filler cap the revs rise about 500-600 rpm, then replacing the cap they go back to normal, so I guess thats normal? Will try the petrol/manifold test at the weekend before stripping it all down. Rich.

Hi Pete, Yes they are RED which by my Haynes SU carb manual is correct along with BO needles. I believe the jet is correct, need to check, but it was all supplied when I had the carbs re-furbished i.e. bushed etc. Been trying to get my head round this all day at work ahem! Tune with colortune ok, lifting pin test fails (weak response) and car runs like a kangaroo. Tune with lifting pins ok, and colortune responds with a rich yellow at idle, but car drives ok. So I am trying to figure out if the manifold is leaking somewhere. Trying to work out if colortune is ok, and I have a vac leak, then that carb must be over rich? Cannot figure out why the discrepancy between the two tests. I think I can rule out the Aldon Ignitor now as the drive I took the other day in full rich condition the car ran well. The car will have to wait until the weekend now and I intend to take the carbs right off, and renew all gaskets on manifold. Oh and inspect the manifold as well for cracks etc. So not able to make the New Forest Run next Sunday and probably the Drive it day trip to the Haynes Museum the following week! Such is life, stay tuned and thanks again. Rich.

Hi Pete, Im a long ways away. South Dorset but thanks for the offer. I will get myself the tools, always money well spent. thanks.

Hi Pete, Used to have two colortunes, sold one years ago Will try to source another it will be handy. Not visibly checked jet heights but will do tomorrow night if I have time. Needles are both flush with the piston base, they are the correct ones i.e. BO Not done a compression check as I need to source a gauge (another thing on the shopping list) Hopefully its not compression as the engine only done 4000 miles, but then again, anything can happen. Thanks.

Ok, here are todays developments. Checked Rotor Arm for shorting/breakdown - OK Dizzy Cap - OK Checked all plug leads and main Lead resistance, all very close so - OK I have 3 coils, all measure 3ohm so put a Lucas one on - OK Read on internet about Aldon requiring a good earth, even adding a dedicated earth to the -ve on the Coil. So I decided to rig up a separate earth cabe from the screw where the flexible dizzy plate earth strap connects to the dizzy body on to the car body to give a better earth than relying on the dizzy to block. Started up and with air filters on, used lifting pins to set mixture. Carbs were quite close but got each one to give just the slight raise in RPM. Took the car out on a 6 mile blast and it ran like a dream. Back to the garage, took the plugs out to see how they looked and they were as black as black can be. Put the colortune on and the rear carb needed seven flats to take out the yellow, the front required about two. Back out on the rad and now the kangaroo is back when pulling away. So lifting pins make the car run nice but overly rich and colortune makes the car to lean and crap to drive but ticks over ok. Also with colortune if I snap open the throttle the burn totally disappears, the engine stumbles then picks up so to lean when showing correct colour burn. Something is not right, either I got a major vacuum leak somewhere that I cannot find or I don't know what the problem is. I checked the inlet manifold bolts and carb to manifold bolts, on some nuts I put another flats worth of turn on them, but it made no difference. Another thing I read online is that with the inlet manifold on the spitfire, where there is a cross tube between both inlet tracts, it can mess up the mixture settings as you can end up with one carb over rich, the other over lean so feeding on each other but still get a false positive reading on mixture.

Well, an update on the saga. This afternoon I removed the inline disposable fuel filter (about 2 years old) and replaced it with a plain piece of fuel pipe. Theory being it might be restricting flow and as I do not have another to hand I'll leave it out for the moment. Anyway, Took the fuel feed from the pump off of the first carb and using the primer leaver pumped fuel through, proving the pump works fine and flushing any potential dirt. None visible. Stripped both carbs down. Checked floats, valves, seats and blew them through. Blew through main jets on both carbs. Float bowls had a little black dirt right in the bottom but nothing really to write about. Re-assembled, primed carbs and started car. Fired first time and when warmed up checked mixture with lifting pins. Re-fited air filters (new ones coming next week from TSSC shop) and re tuned with lifting pins again. Took the car out on the road and it seemed a lot better but there was still a little kangaroo when pulling out of junctions mainly in 1st and a little in 2nd. Top gear low revs then foot to the floor, no hesitation / misfire and pulls ok ish. Power does seem to be down though. Back in the garage, checked timing with strobe and it was at 6' BTDC. Moved it to about 12' BTDC just for the hell of it and took the car out again. No change to kangaroo or performance really. After returning to the garage again I noticed that the ignition coil was boiling hot to the touch. Is this normal for about 10-15 mins driving? And if not what would cause this? Im using non R rated plugs with the Aldon Ignitor ignition. Do I need an Aldon flame Thrower Coil for use with electronic ignition? Just thought as well; What timing should I be running for supermarket mower fuel? Is there a guide or peoples experience on what deg BTDC to set. Rich.

Hi Darren, I have heard a lot about these red rotor arms and have checked out the link you have provided, thanks. But the Spitfire Mk3 has a Delco distributor, and the rotor arm has the springy contact on top to match the caps fixed centre contact. So I don't think that site can help me in this instance. Rich.

Hi again, Pete, will check the float chambers again blow the jets through. Checked the dizzy earth wire whilst I was in there the other day. Ran the R plugs of a whole season two years ago and never had a single problem, only done 50 miles with the car last year, but kept it run upon the garage every other week. Changing the coil yesterday to a new Lucas one with the non-R plugs made no difference. Checked all wiring polarity and all correct. Nothing has been changed around. Darren, I have two rotor arms, one with lucas printed on it and another I cannot remember the brand. Both are riveted arms. Swapped both over, no change, swapped between the two dizzy caps I have and no change. Did notice that the coil I swapped out yesterday was extremely hot after driving the car round the block. Does the earth strap do anything on electronic ignition in the dizzy, as the module has one lead going to the coil + and the other to coil - ? i can understand it when points are employed. Checked the vacuum advance unit tonight by sucking on a foul tasting tube, and yes it moves so the pipe is clear and the unit is functioning. The only other thing I can try is to give the Aldon module a more direct 12v feed as suggested in the literature that comes with it, instead of coming off of the coil's +ve terminal maybe. Rich.

Hi Darren, Im not ruling anything out at the moment, however I did look in the float chambers the other day and plenty of fuel in them and no visible debris (I do have an inline filter). My pump is about two years old and has a priming lever. If the car has been stood for a week or so pumping the lever fills the carbs as you can hear the fuel going in up until the floats cut off supply. So I don't think it is supply related, especially as when I get through the kangaroo phase the engine revs clean at high revs with no hesitation at full throttle. Thought it might be my air filters clogged, but running the car without them gave the same result. Its so strange. When you pull away you put on some revs and its clean, take off and about the time you get the clutch fully engaged its kangaroo time. If you can get it past that it seem ok. Also as said earlier if you have about 3000rpm in say 3rd gear, then down shift to second approaching a junction, as soon as the revs start down to near 1600-1200 ish you can feel the kangaroo effect during off throttle deceleration. Weird.

Hi all, Darren, I am in South Dorset, so a bit far to go. However I have a garage about ten miles away who is good with old cars (into mini's and old D-type replicas). thanks anyway. Pete, Did not bypass anything as I don't have a resistor. Its a Mk3 Spitfire 1968 with standard 12v coil, don't know regards ohms just the bought correct one for the car. Fitted the Aldon a few years back and been relatively sweet running. When the car was running good it kept doing it, but I have always had periods of missing/hesitation all its life. I changed the plugs out the other day from Resistor ones to NGK BP6ES but the car still runs exactly the same with no change. I have checked everything about 4 times now, retuned about the same amount of times. no change. I cannot think its a manifold air leak as I had one years back when the emissions diaphragm went and it was totally undrivable at all rev ranges, this seem to be just low down. You asked about carb springs, as far as I can remember they have Red coloured ends. Still cannot work out the cause of the kangaroo symptoms. Rich.

Well another afternoon with no success. Re-tuned the carbs with the filters on and using lifting pins. Checked with Colortune and wasn't really that far off. Carbs balanced and jets fully home. Car still runs like a pig on the road but standing still its fine. Re-checked timing and re-set to 6" BTDC Dynamic with vac disconnected and plugged. Checked crankcase breather mechanism and diaphragm, all ok. Changed out the coil from a unbranded to a Lucas. Changed Rotor arm to an older one I had branded Lucas but for a Delco dizzy. The car idles pretty good and revs cleanly with no hesitation. Get it on the road and it's useless. Just crack the throttle under load and you are ok, give it more and its like a kangaroo. Give it full pedal and it appears to pull fine when it goes through the kangaroo stage. Getting down to last resort methods now. If no other suggestions come along I will rip out the Aldon electronic ignition and go back to points and see what happens. Run out of things to check and adjust, oh and put fresh fuel in today. Engine is fully standard with no upgrades, carbs are running standard BO needles. Ho Hum.

Hi Pete, Re-tuned the carbs again this morning with lifting pins (air filters were off as per manuals) and the car is running a bit better. No noticable difference on the road with or without filters (standard fitting), but better than yesterday. Idle exhaust beat seems pretty even now with no real splashy sound. I think I have the carbs about as good as they are going to get via the pin method, need to run the car and check spark plug colours really. I have the timing set to 6' BTDC with the engine running (dynamic). Could this be a cause of the low down hesitation? The car is not misfiring, just kangaroo at lower revs and medium throttle opening. Even noticed when slowing for a junction I get the Kangaroo effect off throttle. Tickover is even. Cant remember if I need to advance or retard ignition for unleaded, think its retard, but to what I do not know. As it stands at the moment, in high gear low revs and foot to the floor there is no pinking. Rich.

Hi Pete, Many thanks for the reply. Yes at idle the pistons are floating about half a millimetre off of the stops. Air cleaners were off as per instructions for either method of tuning. Yes I only lifted the piston about half to 1mm to hear the change. No blockages with any of the gaskets. Chokes are fully returning. When adjusting mixture I always keep my finger on the jet to make sure it is following the nut up when going leaner. I just can understand the total difference in result from one test to the other. Rich.

Well I have again today gone through a complete tuning session with the same results. Setup with colour tune, car dies when doing lifting pin test. Setup with lifting pin, colour tune is full yellow on tick over and rich. Re-setup with colour tune and went about a flat richer, took the car out and its a bit kangaroo between 1200 - 2200 rpm then seem ok. The little plastic stop on the underside of the piston is not listed on any parts catalogue, however I saw one reference to it on a MG forum with someone asking a similar question. Apparently if the plastic thing is missing there is little airflow at tick over and the piston may have trouble lifting at takeoff due to lack of airflow. Anyway, I dug out the old stop, measured the one from my other carb and made a new one from nylon which now gives the same height as the other carb. If its the correct height who knows as no information can be found, but at least they are now a pair and the piston is not bottoming out on the bridge. Next step tomorrow will be to put some fresh fuel in the tank. The current fuel is probably 4 months old but it won't hurt to add some fresh. So still getting nowhere fast, need the car running sweet for the 19th April as its the New Forest Run down here in the South. Rich.

Hi all I had this conversation years ago on the old message board but as it is no longer here it will refresh my memory and hopefully help others. Trying to set the mixture on my carbs using two methods, 1) Gunson Colortune 2) Lifting Pins. If I set the carbs via the Color Tune then the lifting pin test fails with an indication of a very weak mixture. If I set the carbs via the lifting pin to obtain the right engine response then the colour tune fails showing an overly rich mixture. The two methods do not give an equal result. No air leaks on manifold, professionally rebuilt carbs, engine only done 4000 miles. On the road the car ticks over fine with a regular exhaust note, with a single missed beat every 20 seconds or so (electrical maybe) Driving the car with the colortune setup the car hesitates on light throttle, but as revs rise and heavier throttle its clear and pulls fine. Just stripped the carbs down and only noticeable things are; Rear carb piston doesn't drop exactly the same as front, slight hesitation at bottom of travel ( jet alignment? ) Also, examining both pistons, there is a little plastic stop on the underside which keeps the piston raises slightly above the bridge. One piston this protrudes by approximately half a millimetre, the other piston it is barely above the surface. I guess these heights must be the same to achieve equal tick over fuel/air mix. I have looked online at parts catalogues and none seem to list this part or even confirm its existence. Any thoughts? Regards, Rich.