Jim-GT6

Thanks Pete. Exactly the common view at the Shire Horse. I can't argue with that. And then follows my inevitable nest question - how does one correct his? Has anyone cleared them of grease to go back to spec? Is it a question of filling a new grease gun with oil and pushing oil through to flush, or do I need to strip it down?

Thanks Chris. Tell me about it! I was only idly looking into how to correct a wonky indicator stalk. It's all great stuff though, and I am REALLY glad I posted the question. Learned heaps. Your step-by-step for this particular situation is great, and matches the plan in my head, which is hugely reassuring. Thanks for the access tips. I can certainly work with 'tighten until Allen key flexes well'. And to your last question, I had never looked to see if I had shims. I have now looked, and they are reassuringly multiple, and asymmetrically distributed .... I'm going to need to add a further step to your list, I think. Need to decide what action for trunnions.

I appreciate both the inner and outer need rotating. I'll be doing both. The outer (tube, cowl and switch assy) was shifted into that wrong rotation by me, so it would match the inner column misalignment, and make the self cancel work correctly. I could have the cowl and switches level right now just by twisting it (I need to look at why that's a bit too easy to shift right now i.e. check the clamps), but if I just twisted it straight my self cancel wouldn't work. Right now I can have one or the other but not both

I guess if I mark up the tie rods carefully, I could wind them fully out of the ball joints to do this check. Will certainly get some string involved if I do to make sure I'm not a full turn out when I put them back. My trunnions are greased. PO used grease instead of oil. I know it's meant to be oil, but I've not yet tackled sorting it. Not sure how serious it is to have grease instead of oil in your trunnions. Local mechanic who works on many similar cars tells me everyone just uses grease and he's always used grease, and never seen one that didn't. Not sure I'm happy with that. This came up at the club meet and it felt like everyone at the table uses oil, as designed.

Looks like mole grips in the past, given the lost paint. I really can't see flats on mine .....

Standard wheels and tyres btw

For me, given the steering rack looks to be out of whack a bit from the tape test, trying to correct it first via the track rods is most appealing, as it might come close to correcting things indicator wise (apart from some questions over the outer column tube tightness / fixings and column safety clamp, which are now on my list to check). As far as I can see, track rods adjustment only involves snipping the cable ties on the rubber gaiters (I guess these weren't finished this way originally for good reason), undoing the locknuts, carefully turning each track rod equal amounts (I assume with mole grips? - there appears to be no feature for turning them you could put a spanner on), nipping the lock nuts back up, then road-testing until the tapes are symmetric when straight ahead, remove and refit wheel. See how the controls cowl / indicator assy now need to be twisted to work, cancelling equally. Decide if it's okay. If I need to go on from there, fair enough, but the 'on from there' involves the lower column / UJ interface (which is not as easy to get at as I pictured in my head - it's tucked under a bit of chassis) and the safety clamp (even though I am massively reassured by Pete's kind advice on how to judge this torque spec sensibly, in terms of 'fully hand-tight' and sensible feel / tools - I do appreciate that - when unsure it's tempting to fixate on numbers, only when you're confident on how to judge the critically of spec deviation and what okay FEELS like, can you be confident you're not doing the very wrong thing). Folk at the start of this thread were advising not to go near the track rods unless it was necessary, aa it probably wasn't, and I can see why now, given the common cause being the rack / column relationship. However, I'm inclined to adjust the rack to centre via track rods first. Bad idea? It feels like a rare convergence of the right thing to do being the easiest thing to do. I think I need to get my toe checked after anyway. I would LOVE to do this myself, and I think the method is probably all in the document Casper shared, but I don't have a surface. I'm on a gravel drive. I'm told I will know if the toe is maintained on a road test by whether it self-centres well. It doesn't exactly self centre well now. It does sort of. It will centre fine from extremes, but it won't pull straight without a guiding hand. I figured that was just heavy steering?

The tightness at one end was the point bothering me too Chris. If I do correct the rack via track rod adjustment, am I right that it will stress the trunnion that may be bottoming out less? It will be running out of thread and going tight earlier in the turn if the range on the rack is asymmetric.

You are 100% right. Yes, I will force one of teenage sons. It’s worth the moaning. A good look from above would likely be very informative!

I had 20 mins while my dinner was cooking. What I think might happen when I adjust the rack via track rods ....

I did the first step of the guide for my problem before I ran out of light. Checking the rack position. After this first step, it goes on to describe exactly the steps shared in the chat above (with the rack known to be centred, next is to tackle steering column by separating column from steering joint at the rack, rotating and refitting). To check the rack, it says start by turning the steering wheel lock to lock, putting put tape on the steering wheel at 6 o'clock with the rack at its extremes. Return the wheel two-and-a-bit turns from max to centre (as the GT6 is 4.25 turns lock to lock). When the tape is symmetric about the centre line, the rack is in the middle. It says the tapes should be around the 'twenty to four' position. Which they kind-of are. I put an extra bit of skinny tape at the top centre when the two marks are equal about the centre line. This can been seen in both photos. I removed and refitted the steering wheel a while back to match the road wheels at straight ahead, so the image of the wheel in the expected position corresponds to straight ahead. It's interesting that the difference between the two photo positions looks very similar to the angle difference of the switch cowling, indicator and main beam stalks. The indicator is shown at rest position in both images, so it's pointing toward the cancel clip on the column (and out toward my leg). It's where it needs to be to work with the column as currently set. It's interesting that the angle of change needed looks close, if not quite the same. I figure I'll try and centre the tape marks, via the tack rods, so the rack is in the middle, then go on to do the extra steps if bringing these tape marks to centre via adjustment of the track rods doesn't fully correct the indicator clip / column orientation. I counted visible threads on the track rods out of interest. Currently very similar both sides. I reckon 12 on one, 14 the other. I guess I could ignore the rack issue, but the steering gets VERY tight at full right lock, wanting to spring beck ¼ turn and needing a fair heft to hold the wheel at max rotation, and at the other lock, no such stress. Obviously it's not very often the car will need to move on full lock, but if stuck in a ditch and some welly applied applied, I expect something might suffer badly.

Update: I checked to see if the rack is centred (step one in the Courier guide). From straight ahead, it currently allows 2.25 turns to the left, and 2 turns to the right. Looks like I will need to start with equal rotations of the track rods to centre the rack so it's equal each way. This in itself might centre the column, we'll see (it would rotate the column / indicator clip in the desirable direction i.e. CCW). We'll see. If so, it might then just be remove and refit steering wheel .... and perhaps a visit to have the toe checked.

Thanks Pete. That's very reassuring. Thanks also for the tip on the horn. That would have been a head scratcher too!

Brilliant guide in the Courier Casper! Thanks so much for pointing the way. I second the call for a compilation of these if they're all this good. Has such a thing been done? I'll check my rack position first for peace of mind. I've not noticed any asymmetry, but I've not checked. I note the article suggests loosening the lock not and grub screw in the safety clamp to allow the column to slide up out of the steering joint, then tightening it to 18-20 ft lbs when the column is back in position, before doing up the lock nut. Loosening the safety clamp sounded appealing instead of loosening the grub screw to avoid messing up the setting, but I see the two bolts through the clamp are also specified as torqued up to a value. About half that of the centre grub screw. If the faces of the clamp are touching when I look at it, then I suspect I might be fine to do them back up good and tight (without using a torque wrench) to just the faces back together, but if they're not touching and I retighten the bolts without a torque wrench, I would be affecting the setup of safety clamp in the same way as approximating the tightness of the grub screw. I also do not trust the PO on the question of tightening anything correctly. Everything is loose. Latest was two bolts on the prop. Just not done up. A lot of work was done 20 years back, with not many miles / yr since then until I bought it 18 months ago. Some details of reassembly feel a bit, hurried? All this is telling me that I need a good torque wrench. Thanks to everyone for their inputs on this. I was really not well enough informed on how the steering was put together, and this stuff is not in the manuals.

Absolutely right. Sits in grooves in the column, or appears to. Just one position possible.

Hi Chris, this is a great guide. Thank you. The controls are just as you say. Main beam stalk pointing up to the left. The whole outer tube and cowling can be twisted with heft to a new position with a squeak. I’ll check the wiring isn’t wrecked. Suspect the clamps just not fully tight.

Thanks Colin. I did wonder if it would slide up easily. Would I need to slacken the bolts on the impact clamp to free it up if tight? In the Haynes I have now seen it says to pay attention to the indicator cancel lip orientation on reassembly. I guess someone didn't.

Thanks everyone! I thought there must be somewhere between the steering column and tie rods to change their relationship. I didn't know these parts were splined when disassembled. Thank you for your patience! I had looked in my manuals, but din't see this mentioned. Just found this diagram on Rimmers. I assume I'm slackening one of the pinch bolts that goes through FAM1718 to withdraw the column. Is it the one shown here, or the one not shown?

Hi all, In order to function correctly, my indicator stalk is pointing down at something past 4 o'clock at rest, instead of toward 3 o'clock. If I'm signalling right and I crash, I will most certainly be impaled. It's also just annoying. It looks really wrong, and it's not to hand where you'd want it! The reason the stalk is pointing down at something past 4, is that this is where it needs to be for the signal cancel to work. When I'm going straight, my steering wheel is straight, but the column isn't correct rotationally for the indicator cancel cams to be right with the actuators, unless the controls are twisted. Although the steering wheel can fit to any spline location, I've come to suspect / realise / think it actually appears to have only one correct relationship to the steering column, which is when the indicator cancel lump is pointing East and the steering wheel is centred. I can't see a way to rotate the bump relative to the column. It's a clip, but is always shown on exploded diagrams as part of the column, and looks to sit in a machined feature in the column itself, meaning it can't be anywhere else (I think?). If this is the case, to correct it, I think I need to take off the steering wheel, refit it so the indicator cancel is correct to the wheel (which will make it look like I'm taking a medium left turn), then adjust the tie rods equal amounts in the same direction until the wheels point forward with the steering wheel, eventually, straight ahead. Just to say, I've got no reason to suspect major impact damage in the past to the car. I'v been driving it like this daily since I bought it 18 months ago. I worked out that this was how to get the indicators working a few weeks after buying it. It turns out I cannot train myself to cancel my own indicators. I tried for weeks. I flash for half a mile. It's embarrassing. It's had an MOT since, and done about 4k miles on new tyres I fitted a few weeks after I got it, which look to be wearing very evenly. No big handling issues. I don't know why my column cancel actuator is out of alignment. In terms of threads visible on the tie rods, they look sort of similar. I've not counted, but maybe 10 to 15 visible each side? Could be similar to each other, or maybe up to 4 threads difference between them. I could count if useful? How much would a rotation on the tie rod make to the steering wheel rotation? If 3 or 4 threads would make a 4 o'clock wheel go to 3 o'clock, that might be it. Also - I suspect it's not too important that they're equal. I imagine there's a reason for the big adjustment range on the tie rods. So ... if the only way to correct the issue with the indicator cancel bump is via adjustment of the tie rods, the next thing is whether I can do this myself by making equal adjustments each side until the steering wheel is straight, without any measurements or equipment. Just careful, equal turns with a mark on both sides (I don't have flat ground, or a garage to set up a rig or measuring setup). Would making equal turns keep the toe okay (within bounds) or would it throw it out? Could I assume its okay if it feels okay and I keep a close eye on tyre wear at intervals for 1k miles? If it's currently okay (which it is), and it feels okay after I correct the column (with adjustments same each side), and the tyre wear is okay, then do I need to worry? I might organise this post into a list of numbered questions .... If I could fix this, my inner OCD would ooze a sigh of relief like a long overdue wee at a service station. Thanks in advance!

Thanks chaps! Mike Papworth hasn't been in the last 6 issues (I only joined in June this year). That said, he could be in October. I can't find October. I did a search online and found contact details. Nice interview on YouTube too! I'll give T.D.Fitchett a ring tomorrow as well. They've had the same stock list in every issue I've got, so I assume it's not kept current. No listing for a GT6 diff. Decent price on a Spit mkIV one though. On driving today, it's better than before I filled it, but it can still howl at speed. As for expected usage, the GT6 is my only car. I've only had it a year. I do about 100 miles every week. All year round. More if I go on a proper drive instead of just commuting. I hope to keep the car for a long time. I have no plans to raise into the 'special' category. It's a lovely, tidy example, and I'd like to make it incrementally better every time it needs attention. Pete - are you saying I may get a quiet diff if I had the pinion bearings replaced? That is if my CW&P is 'good'? I suspect it might not be! You haven't had the benefit of hearing it. 😬 - but I can appreciate an offset in the mesh distance from bearing wear would make a racket Or, are you saying a refurb unit can be fine if the donor had good gears but shot bearings? Either way, mail order delivery or collection is likely the way I'll need to go, rather than take out and send away for refurb. Thanks again

If they can be quiet, then that's my new goal, because with a quiet diff, my car would be a very different experience. It's just gone round the clock, but had a full engine about 10k miles ago (circa yr 2000) and its in really good overall condition. It could easily have the original diff at over 100k. Gearbox is topped up. I changed the hydraulic system completely last year, so had the tunnel cover off. I overfilled the gearbox a bit (I think) as the overdrive went loopy for about 300 miles. In and out constantly. It settled down. Which might mean it leaks quickly .... but it doesn't seem too bad from the underside So ... I've been looking at diffs. Looks like round about £850 inc vat from Rimmers with new crown wheel and pinion. Where can I get a great diff with a good setup? I now realise it's a better investment for my car than a stainless sports exhaust! (which was top of the list, and daft, given the sound of the drivetrain) Best route to a quiet diff?

Thanks again for the onboard diagnostic Doug! I topped it up today and it was almost (or completely) dry. Castrol EP90. I think it took about 400ml. Capacity listed as 1 pint. I tried to poke a flexible tube in first (on a huge syringe) to see if I could pull anything out, but I could only get the tube in about an inch, and certainly nowhere near the level of any fluid left in there. I wish I'd seen your nearside wheel-off suggestion sooner Pete. I was going to go for ramps and axle stands, as the manual says it should be level, but I've got to do this on gravel so opted for just lifting the rear on stands (on boards) with the ramps in tight under the front as chocks. I took the offside wheel off, as I thought it was on the offside 🙄 and with all this access, I could see how accessible it is from the rear. It's tucked just under the rear sill. I reckon you could do it with the car up just a couple of inches on a jack. I'll know next time. Result is a lot quieter. About half as loud. Now I've recognised what the diff sounds like, I realise it's most of the transmission noise I hear. I thought a lot was the gearbox, but I think I have a very noisy diff. I'll be looking at options for refurb / replace I think. Knackered bearings perhaps Pete? Can the diff be quiet? It's wet with oil, so I'll be checking / filling regularly until it's sorted, particularly now I know how much easier it is than I thought.

Wicked. I'll DM you. Thanks Doug!

Hi Doug! Yes of course it's me! Have I been quiet for a while? There ... I've even updated my picture 😃 Fancy a spin in my car to play guess the noise? Thanks for the wheel bearing tips. Nice and clear (as you know my level of competence!). I'll do just as you suggest. Cheers,

Thanks Richard, you've clearly had a lot to chase through to find it. I get a metal rubbing sound matched to wheel rotation speed when I'm turning slowly at or near full lock. Heading up the ramps and turns in a multi-story is when I really notice it, as it reverbs around the space. I'll be keen to hear what comes of your latest steps on the prop shaft