Jim-GT6

.... and, what can happen if I don't fix it quickly enough? If it's the prop shaft, what happens when they go? :)

Very helpful thread, as I appear to have the same on my GT6 mk3. I've had the car for around a year and it's always had a mild wine / vibration when holding a constant motorway speed, but it's recently got FAR worse. It happens over 60mph, isn't there if I'm accelerating or if I take my foot off and there is engine braking, but if I hold a steady speed, it's like I'm scuffing an angle grinder over metal in hops and starts. Terrible sound. Didn't know where to look first. Prop shaft? Jim

Thanks Pete. Hmmm. Might buy 1.5L, as looking at silicon. Was going to avoid the topic of which fluid though, as there is plenty of verbiage on that question! How much did yours take Doug? 😁

Hi folks, Anyone know where I can find out approximate fluid capacity of brake and clutch system? Changing the full hydraulic system and need to know how much fluid to buy. 1972 GT6 mk3, single circuit, no servo. Not in Haynes or handbook, and can’t find a listing online.

Fabulous!! Thank you. A 10 min job for £35 instead of a really tricky one for £80. Thanks so much for investigating. 🙏

As the thread is on ignition switch function, can I ask a related question? My ignition has failed. There is no spring back of the key from the starter position, and nothing comes on on the dash. I pulled the ignition switch off the back of the lock assembly (it just slid off - screws may be missing) and turned the switch with a screwdriver. Starts fine. No issue. The switch itself does not spring back, so starter continues until you back it off a few degrees. My question is which one has failed? The key barrel assembly or the switch? Which one provides the ‘spring’ back from starter position? The switch or the lock barrel? If it’s the switch that should be spung, then a new switch should fix it I hope.

Another great tip. Thank you. I was looking at it and wondering how easily it will come free. On this - should I be putting anything on the thread of the new one when I fit it? To help seal it, and / or help it come undone in future? Is there a gunk or paste I should be using?

Thanks for the tip Nigel. I don't have a garage, and I was a bit unsure if all this would be easy on the flat in the gravel carpark, but if it's only a question of front end up for refill, and the rest is okay on the flat, we should be good. I wouldn't have thought to lift the front for the refill.

Thanks Clive. Your breakdown of how to do this job is super helpful. Makes great sense. Really appreciate the step by step. Not sure I have the wherewithal or kit to ensure the gauge and sender are calibrated. Really wish I did. I've added a new temp. sender, thermostat and voltage regulator (in addition to what was on it's way) so I can do my best to rule all those out. I think the regulator is worth a check as my fuel gauge hits the top end-stop when I fill it, way off the scale, and I imagine there can be a few causes for this, but I've been reading that the OEM voltage regulators can become poor with age and be thrown off by temperature. It certainly gets toasty under my dash! May as well change the regulator as it could easily be causing or confusing an issue, what with the whole 'always at 60% hot' thing too. I've ordered an OEM one from ANG, and I've also got a solid state regulator in my basket on eBay, as I'm tempted to try both. Are these any good? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254122537915 More stable than the standard ones? I've looked through the history, and found everything cooling related: 1991: Rebuild Radiator (Guildford Radiators Ltd £95 + VAT), Thermostat 88 degree, Hose set 2003: Recon exchange radiator assy (Six Spares, Teddington £120 + VAT), Radiator cap 13lb, Heater water valve, Thermostat 82 degree, Hose set 2014: Voltage stabiliser, Hose set These jobs coincide with burst of receipts for all sorts of work, and there are big gaps in between. Mileage I have references for: 1999: 85,627. 2002: 95,138. 2014: 95,145. 2015: 96,378. 2016: 96,652. 2017: 97,122. 2019: 97,267. late 2020: 98,249 (when I bought it) 2021: 00,118 (now) If this is correct, it last had a last proper cooling overhaul in 2003, then barely moved for 11 years. It did 3k miles between 2014 and 2020. Last rad overhaul 18 years ago, hoses 7 yrs ago, and 5k miles over the whole period. Current plan: 1. Drain and discard the waterless coolant (no confidence it's <3% water, and it looks quite rusty) 2. Flush everything as described above, poke until everything is flowing, taking particular note of flow through the rear block drain 4. Once cleared, fit heater valve, front radiator cowl, 82 degree thermostat and 13lb filler cap (but keep voltage regulator and temp sender change in hand until after the test run to measure the flush effect using the same kit) 5. Fill with water+speedflush, run, check for improvement on the readings 6. Drain, refill with 30% antifreeze and water, fit voltage regulator and temp sender, go on another run, if it's changed, it due to the sender or regulator If it's all not happy and stable after that, It either needs a clear-through of the block with the head off, or a recore of the rad., or both. I know I've just repeated back everything you've collectively told me, but I can now print this as my to do list! 😄 Cheers, Jim

Johny, I feel you've captured it really well here. Capacity. It might have been a bit marginal back in the day with production costs what they were for different materials at that moment in time, and that capacity gets used with degradation, but it's a question, as you rightly say, of how much extra capacity we want to add now for comfort vs. maintaining original setup. We don't expect to see cars on the hard shoulder anymore. It's going to be the same as one's aversion to all sorts of risk! 😁

All wise words. Start from the most likely, and easy. Bob - I would not be at all unhappy to end with the same outcome you have. I think I'd like the comfort you currently enjoy of cooler than norm, rather than hotter. I could start replacing sensors and the full system from sender onwards, to be sure of the root issue from the ground up, but suspect what I need to do is be sure the fluid is flowing where it should be. As for other causes, the fuel gauge appears okay, so I feel like the voltage reg is likely okay. The water flows when it warms up, so the thermostat must be functional at some temp. Feels like it's a rad re-core vs. block / head clear out as the things I need to choose between as the first step ...

This topic is so timely for me, as my GT6 has been getting scary hot recently, but there again maybe this topic comes up every year when we break into temps in the high 20's C ? 😄 It's a long time since I owned an old car, and my GT6 is 3 years older than me. This forum is such a blessing. Reading these last few posts I'm now convinced I was about to do expensive things in the wrong order. My car normally sits at about 60% hot. I don't know why. It's always been above middle since I bought it. I thought maybe that was fine for an old car. It was pretty stable at 60% or 65%. I didn't know if it was realistic for gauges to sit dead on where they would have done when the car was young (I still don't to be honest). These last weeks it's got to about 80/85% hot at times. Just below the very small 'hot' box on the gauge. And for a good while on a few journeys. I hate the anxiety of looking at the needle every 30 seconds and panicking if there's a jam on the M4! It's not in the danger zone, but I feel it's doing damage to everything under the bonnet. The power also drops off - it becomes gutless. Regardless of how accurate the gauge may or may not be, when you take off the rad filler cap, and the cap rubber is stuck to the rim, it's clear the engine is running as hot as the gauge might have suggested (or maybe even hotter). It peels off intact if I take it off very carefully, but it's clearly been 'denatured'. That surely means scary hot? I've ordered a new cap. I overheated my first car shortly after I passed my test (mini clubman estate 998cc - my first love) and melted a spark plug. Nearly killed it. New head gasket. I didn't know what getting 'well into the red' might do to a car when I was 17. Ever since, unsurprisingly perhaps, I hate it when cars run hot. All the rubber and plastic is the first to go, then really scary things happen (I was emotionally scarred by the abuse I inflicted on that car through poor judgement - we had only just finished restoring it from a £150 rusty heap to gleaming - I was so close to the motorway exit! - we fixed it). When I bought my GT6 last autumn, the PO told me he had put waterless coolant in it, I guess because it must have been overheating. As the gauge had been reading hot recently, I checked and the coolant was low, with nothing in the expansion tank, so bought some Evans to top it up (ouch) and half filled the expansion tank too. I think I'll stick with the waterless for now, as it's in there, but if I have to drain it, I've not made up my mind what to refill it with. I think the PO did not do the job properly (flushed with water not chemical), and the topic of coolant is maybe somewhat aside (I think the topic of another thread?). The thing of import in this regard is - it's pretty rusty looking - pants to crud and corrosion. My expensive next steps plan to address the scary hot temps, was: 1. Replace the leaking heater valve that piddles coolant all over the engine when it's shut (so it has to stay open all the time, which is great when it's 28 deg out as it was last week!) The apparent leak is clearly the first thing to fix. Valve is on its way. 2. Buy and fit the missing front radiator cowl (regular fibre board, as aluminium feels, well ... why? It will likely get bent in the post, and aluminium to what benefit?) - this cowl is also on the way - I figure it's supposed to be there, so can't be a wrong decision 3. When they're fitted, test it with the number plate on, and off, on a good run, and if that has an effect, buy a bonnet sticker one instead (which I might do anyway, as the number plate really MUST compromise the air flow where it's mounted, and the sticker would look quite cool on the white bonnet IMO 😎) I would have to hope my best efforts at plate visibility satisfy any officers who take an interest 4. Then, if still not good, buy an electric fan kit - was looking at Kenlow / Revotec - undecided which 5. Then, aluminium uprated radiator combined with an oil cooler (which I'm not sure where you mount?) The car would then no doubt run at a stable temp, as it would have a brand new (and by material difference alone), more efficient radiator. And an oil cooler that was never there before. I'd also be around 5 or 6 hundred quid lighter. 50 years of crud, material degradation and oxidation of the internal surfaces of the of rad is, I now see quite clearly, the most likely cause of the issue. My 'number 3' will now be to look for a recore locally ASAP, which was not even on my list. If the recore doesn't fully bring temps under control, then a leccy fan might be on the cards, or maybe I should be looking for a blockage in the engine before a leccy fan? The bigger picture question I have is this: If they're running as designed, would these cars be fine if they got stuck in a jam for an hour on a hot day after an hour at 70mph? When these cars were brand new, did they run hot and overheat? Or is it that after 10 or 15 years of use, the cars started running hot, because the rads were end of life? It was Pete's comment "the trouble is you cant see the offending problem as its all inside , it looks ok outside it must be everything else but not the radiator" that struck me. I didn't have the pleasure of driving these cars new, but I expect members on the forum may have. Does a brand new GT6 sit at dead middle temp in all conditions? If not, maybe the upgrade in materials to aluminium and the luxury addition of electric fan and oil cooler is a worthwhile step to make these cars run as reliably as they can?

Yep, that pin arrangement is not what I've got! Side view yes, end view no. And a weird bulb holder on the car which I think looks to have a snapped terminal for either tail or brake circuit. Hoping the new bulbs match your digram. I expect why will! Thanks!

HI pete, I'm having a nightmare with my rear lights, and I was looking through the discussions for those with maybe the same issue, when I came to your point about offset bayonets on the twin filament bulbs. Mine are offset, and I'm not sure my holder and bulb are matched. Clearly you know these bulbs and holder mixup issues well, and I think I have a similar mess on mine. I'm just not sure... 1972 GT6 Mk3. First off, the rear passenger-side indicator was intermittent. I kept having to wiggle the holder to get it working, and it would stop again before long. Then it really gave up. I figured it was maybe a bad connection between claw fitting and lamp housing, so I had a good look at a couple of the holders and saw they were all in quite poor condition. The rings with sprung claws were loosely or barely in contact with the connections to the outside walls of bulbs. Ordered a set of six to replace them all across the back. When I started looking at it, I realised the wiring is far from spec too, but I'll come back to that! I swapped out the reverse light holder (single filament) fine. Came to do the stop/tail, and the old bulb wouldn't fit the new holder. The bulb has bayonet pins that are offset in height, but also offset from centre. One is between the contacts when viewed from the end, the other is not. I've taken some photos to show. The old bulb holder looks like it should take a bulb with pins that would be at 90 degrees to the connections (as does the new one), but the old one does take the bulb with offset pins anyway with a fight, I think because it's been forced?? It's been functional that way since I got it, but not convinced the brightnesses were ever right. Passed it's MOT not long ago though. The new holder is also a different design in other ways. Even the connections don't look like they are configured the same as the old holder. I've since ordered a full set of new bulbs to go with the new holders, as the chap at James Paddock said the bulbs he has in hand have pins at 90 degrees to the contacts and he has never heard of the issue I'm talking about. This is the bulb that's been in the car since I got it. Trying to show the offset bayonet pins: The is the new holder I got in the set of six. Matches what they look like in manuals and other people's photos I think. The spade connectors are opposite each other: And this is the old holder (I've taken the rubber off and can replace). The spades are at 90 degrees, and the connectors don't look to be configured the same: And now I've blown two fuses, and didn't have any more. So new bulbs and several fuses on the way. All the lights have gone screwy, and I can't test for voltage at the holders when it should be there to see what's what unless I put tinfoil across the fuse. Given I've blown it twice, I don't think I would risk shorting the fuse. I'll have to wait. Have you ever seen this bulb or holder combo that I've had on the car? Any idea if it's just wrong for the car? Do my new ones look right? As I say, the wiring at the rear lights is also a mess, but I might save that for another post! Trying to match it to the diagram, but none of the colours are right. I've got lots of picks of that too! Feels like a PO has done some odd things in several places!

Thanks chaps! No oscilloscope, so I'll take a look and see which type of stabiliser I've got. Worth a punt for a tenner if I can't be sure. That said, I think my digi multimeter might be able to do square wave DC. I'll do some manual reading! Cheers, Jim

Pete - Was just reading through this thread for general interest, and saw your description of symptoms for over voltage. My GT6 (recently acquired first triumph) reads ~65% hot and the fuel gauge doesn't really drop below ¼ full. It reads about 120% full when I fill it, and sits there for about 50 miles, with the needle slammed against what must be an end stop. The situation is not exactly a problem, as I just treat ¼ as empty and don't worry too much if it looks a little warm. I didn't know there might be a simple fix though! I own a multi-meter. Can anyone give any guidance on which points I could take a PD reading between to see if I'm over 10.5V on the gauges? I'd need dumbo level instructions, but can usually follow those

Colin. Phenomenal. I feel much happier answering these questions with confidence. Really appreciate your words on this!

Hi all, Just bought my first Triumph, and insured through Lancaster with agreed valuation. In the form, I noted a few things, and as a result, they've come back to me asking for some clarifications. They've asked me four questions, and I'm trying to work out the answers! You want to be wrong on these forms. The car came with a pretty decent history folder, and I've been thumbing through it to see. The first question is about the exhaust: "Following the return of your agreed valuation we have been notified by our independent valuation department that you have declared the vehicle has had a stainless-steel exhaust fitted, uprated suspension, a respray and an engine rebuild. Please can you confirm the following: • If the stainless-steel exhaust increases the BHP? If so what is the new BHP for the vehicle? • If the suspension has been raised or lowered? If so, how much by? • If the respray used standard or non-standard paint? Also was the vehicle sprayed the original colour? • If the engine rebuild had used like for like replacement parts with the original specification for your vehicle or different to the original specification and if this has also changed the CC of your engine form the original CC of your vehicle?" ___ I checked in the receipts, and the only exhaust I can find is from Rimmer Bros. 2 parts: TT5409 S/S REAR SIL SPORT (2PC), TT5416 S/S FRONT PIPE SPORTS, S/S 'Y' PIECE SPORTS. This doesn't quite match what I see on the car though (see photo) ... Does this exhaust increase BHP, and does the one in the photo look like you'd expect? How can I found out more? I don't think the suspension has been raised or lowered ... can anybody tell? (see photo) I think the paint is standard and the original colour. It's not written on the plate under the bonnet. Is this a standard colour? It was certainly white in 2002 according to the MOT in the file. For the rebuild, I know that it was converted to unleaded, electronic ignition (so these are different to original spec.), but it has the original Strombergs, and no mention of changing the CC (that I can find). Can anybody help me with some info so I can be confident about the answers to these questions?

Amazing shine on yours! Mine is a new acquisition. First Triumph.

Great info BT! If you don't decide to come out of retirement and start selling these parts, you must share your CAD files with someone! With the data, anyone can send prints to a bureau. Not as satisfying as printing yourself, but it's the way we will all be sourcing parts soon enough.

Hi BT, Great to hear you've had so much success! Nice info too. Do you have access to the 3D part data files or did you model the parts yourself? Have you managed to print FDM parts that aren't porous? We printed a bottle at work and it wept with water. We used a very basic filament though. PLA I think. I'm wondering whether you could print parts like a steering gaiter in TPU without porosity issues? Do the higher end filaments (PC etc.) print non porous rigid parts? We have a couple of FDM Ultimakers. Also a couple of FormLabs SLA. Jim

New to the site and just came across this topic. I do a lot of 3D printing (product designer). We have printers at the office and we also put parts out to print bureaus. It depends on the demands of the application. I don't have a printer of my own, but I do have some experience and information to offer on the types of technology out there and their uses. FDM is the most common type of desktop, home or university printer. It squeezes heated plastic filament through a nozel and builds parts up in layers. It's very low cost, quite a lot of materials and colours available, but it's weak between build layers (it's anisotropic). We usually use this type of print to test if the geometry is correct before doing a final print using another technology. Not good mechanically and quite a low grade surface finish. SLA is the next most common type. It uses lasers to fuse parts in a bath of liquid resin. A bit more expensive (both the printer and the parts it makes), but very high surface quality. The parts are isotropic, but VERY brittle (even if the manufacturers claim otherwise - ALWAYS brittle). Can make parts in all colours and also clear parts. Can be painted afterwards. Quite dimensionally accurate and can hold fine detail. Cosmetic only though really due to its brittleness. SLS printers are usually only owned by bureaus. SLS is my process of choice if the part needs to take any mechanical load. Prints can be as strong as a nylon or PU injection moulded component. Not expensive for the prints, but the machines are a step up in cost. In SLS, lasers sinter plastic powder in a tank. The printed parts are tough (not brittle), but the surface finish is quite rough. The parts can be drilled or post-machined though, so if you need a hole in a part with a good, smooth internal bore, you can print a part with a pilot for spotting the centre and drill / enlarge your final hole post print. No supports needed on SLS parts, as they are supported inside the bath of powder. Can also be dyed a range of colours and 'vibro' finished to make them smooth as a post process. Metal sintering is one I have less experience of, but it's similar to SLS, except it's metal powder in the tank with some resin rather than polymer powder. SLS and metal sintering have much the same characteristics (isotropic, good mechanical performance, rough surface finish) but the metal parts are stronger. Metal sintered parts cost more than polymer SLS. Many of the aero parts for F1 cars are prototyped as SLA or SLS and tested on track or in the wind tunnel during development. The technology has come on a long way in the last 20 years that I've been using it, but the claims are always overstated. That said, if you use the right process for the right purpose, you can get fantastic results at a fraction of the cost of alternatives like moulding or even CNC machining. Jim

Maybe cars and their owners look alike. As with dogs and their owners.

Hi Doug, Great! Thanks for emailing John for me Doug. Much appreciated. That is indeed my car! 😄

Hi Doug, I'm completely new to the forum. I've just bought my first Triumph (three weeks ago). I'm in love with it. A 1972 GT6 MK3. I didn't plan on driving it to work, but I'm driving it whenever I have an excuse. It brings me so much joy. Which means I'm driving to work. It's in really good condition, but it needs some checks and a gater change for the MOT. My Dad is sending me all his non-metric spanners, but they're not here yet, and I sadly don't possess his knowledge, skills or brick built garage. I'm not young. Which makes him really old. I'm looking for a local mechanic for a service, change of gater, a look at a few things I've noticed about the steering, check alignment etc, along with a few other bits similar, and put it through an MOT. I'm in Twyford. You mentioned a John Palmer near me. I'd be grateful if you could put me in touch? I've also come across Barnside Motors' website through a local search. Anyone with any experience of Barnside Motors? The Shire Horse is just up the road from me! I drive past it every day. Cheers, Jim