nicrguy1966
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Posts posted by nicrguy1966
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1 hour ago, johny said:
Its alright according to the manual the bolt should come undone with 90 - 100 lbft👍
Did the manual plan for a 50 year old car?
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Maybe I just need someone to sit in the car and put their foot on the brake? Triumph handbrakes are feeble at best!
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20 minutes ago, Gully said:
Impact gun!
Gully
Sadly I don't have one, or a 15/16th socket, but I'll put that on the list of possible solutions.
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42 minutes ago, JohnD said:
Despite the 2000+ "uses" that WD40 claims, including as a penetrating oil, it's pretty useless for that purpose.
There are many other purpose made penetrators, plus some home brews (Acetone and ATF? Ah, le bouquet, monsieur!), but my own favourite is 'Innotec DeBlock'
Some heat may help too. No need for red heat, but get it too hot to touch!
John
I have a blow touch (somewhere!). I'll try that before sending my ring spanner through the bonnet!
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2 minutes ago, Puglet1 said:
In days of old, I have seen a skilled mechanic attach a very good fitting ring spanner or socket and Tommy bar to the nut, ensured that the spanner was resting safely against the chassis , distributor cap removed and the starter motor “flicked “ to unlock the nut. Make sure you are happy with the position of the spanner before doing so.
Sounds a bit scary. I'll see if soaking overnight with WD40 has any effect first, but it might come to that.
I tried a ring spanner and hitting the handle with a hammer to see if the shock wave would free it (I wasn't expecting that to work, but worth a try!)
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Ok, 2.5 hours into the job and the radiator is out and the fan is off.
I'm stuck at undoing the nut on the crack pulley. Even with the car in gear and the handbrake on, the car's just edging towards the garage door every time I give it a really hard pull.
I've soaked it in WD40 and thought I'd see if the hive mind of TSSC would tell me I'm missing something obvious.
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For those still following this saga, the plastering is almost finished. Three weekends of work to get to something close to acceptable!
I'll be draining the cooling system and taking out the radiator tomorrow (hopefully).
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1 hour ago, Chris A said:
Plus, in my case, more on the floor than on the wall
I've bought twice as much plaster as I need for exactly this reason!
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4 hours ago, Ian Foster said:
If you have the skill to plaster a wall, you can certainly time a Triumph camshaft.
Good luck.
I'm not sure I have the skills to do either, but I like to give everything a try!
🤣
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I've ordered the gasket and oil seal from Canley Classics. I don't think I'll need to change the tensioner as the engine was reconditioned around 12 years ago (when the timing problem probably started).
Now I just need to wait for the postie, and for a gap in my work schedule (and probably plaster a wall that's also on my to-do list, and is higher on my wife's list of priorities!)
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3 hours ago, JohnD said:
Guy,
You have established that the cam timing is out! Well done! Now to bite the bullet and correct it, and you can do this yourself!
But prepare! You don't want to realise that you need parts when you want the car back on the road. A new timing cover gasket, and I suggest a new crank oil seal while that is off the car. One of the most fiddly jobs is to ensure the timing chain tensioning spring is in place when putting the cover back on. A wire hook like this is helpful - use thick wire! Mine is made from an old coat hanger! "A" should be the width of the chain, Singlex (as probably on a GT6) or Duplex. Use it to hold the spring against the cover as you replace it.
You will probably need to remove the radiator for ease of access, so antifreeze to replace the coolant, and (why not?) new rad hoses too.
Then actually doing the timing. The 'usual' method involves lining up marks on the cam and crank sprockets, but rebuilt engines may have replacement sprockets without marks. Then, you must use the 'classical' method that uses protractor wheels on crank and cam, or else ELoO! I think I have posted for you a link to my article on Sideways, but that uses two dial gauges which you may not have. There is an alternative methods, one in which you set the valve gaps wide and then check for equality at TDC Look it up, I thin k it;s in the WSM), or else you can use a spirit level! See: https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9639-a-new-method-of-cam-timing/#comment-134275 There I pictured the method with the head off, but you could use it on the rockers with ease.
Good luck!
John
Good tips about the crank oil seal and the timing chain. I hadn't thought of those, I only considered the timing cover gasket.
When I was speaking with the mechanic that did seem to understand the Triumph engine, he said that the marks on the crank and cam gears would have been put on by whoever rebuilt the engine when it was reconditioned. So if they put the engine together wrong, the mark would also probably be in the wrong place.
I'll have to rely on setting the cam timing using another method, such as finding the "balance point" (described in the WSM).
I'll order some parts next week, then it's just a case of finding the right time to pull the engine apart.
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2 hours ago, johny said:
Any advance (pun intended) in this intriguing case?
I spoke with 2 garages that I know have experience working on older cars. The first didn't seem to have a clue about my car and I felt I'd be paying him to learn more than fix anything.
The second was clearly very knowledgeable but seemed to want to create a much bigger job than just fixing my cam timing (seemed very keen on fitting a different cam shaft as well as a vernier gear on the cam shaft). The idea of just flipping the gear over seemed totally beneath him.
So I've decided to try and do it myself, and I'm just waiting for a good time when I don't need the car for at least a week and I'm less busy at work.
The only question remaining is whether to do it in my tiny, one car garage, or take it to a workshop with much more space, a hydrologic lift, but much more pressure to get the whole job done in a single day. Otherwise the car will be stuck there, undrivable, and about 45 minutes walk from home.
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Before I pay someone to look at it, there was one suggestion earlier that I've not investigated and I think it's within my DIY skillset, and that's to check if the distributor is "one tooth out".
How likely do people think this could cause the problem? I'm doubtful as I can adjust the ignition timing all the way from 13 degrees BTDC to 26 degrees BTDC by twisting the distributor body, so what difference would changing the way gears at the base of the distributor fit make?
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17 minutes ago, JohnD said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
As said above, even without a 'flip', you should be able to set your timing to within half a tooth. (Can't recall what that is in degrees!) When your original complaint indicates it misset by more than that. Verniers are for people who want to advance/retard by micro amounts.
John
I must admit I did think it was more for his convenience than absolutely necessary for a road car. It's not like I'll be striping the engine and tuning it on a regular basis.
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On 03/09/2023 at 16:55, johny said:
yes got to be adjusted on cam sprocket but if you want half a tooth on the crank (to get TDC and cam rocking position) thats only a quarter tooth on the cam because it goes round half as fast. Then of course theres no problem moving the cam sprocket this amount because the offset mounting holes plus the option of using either face allows just that👍
As you say if you want any finer adjustment its got to be an expensive vernier jobbie...
The mechanic I spoke to has recommended the "vernier jobbie". He thinks it's the only way to set the cam timing accurately.
I'm just waiting for him to have a slot in his garage to fit me in for some professional diagnostics and hopefully a fix.
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17 minutes ago, johny said:
And you dont think you have enough knowledge now to correct the problem? Not rocket science although you dont want to rush it...
If sounds very fiddly, and my garage isn't very spacious or well equipped, so even with the radiator out, getting a good view of the front of the engine and clear access will be difficult.
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4 minutes ago, johny said:
Dont think all mk3 GT6 had domed pistons only from engine number KE10001...
My car has a reconditioned engine (probably when the cam timing was messed up) and the engine number isn't readable (sadly).
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2 minutes ago, RedRooster said:
It's because they changed the head to a TR6 one, so domed pistons to bring the CR back up.
David Vessey is your man for engines, did a good job on mine.
I didn't think I had domed pistons, but I've not taken the head off to look (not since I owned a Herald anyway).
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36 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
i make it 42 teeth so thats 8.57deg per tooth so yours is around 3/4 of a tooth out so may need the sprocket turning over and much playing and cursing
every time the chain falls off
Pete
Another reason it might be time to let a professional mechanic do the work!
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23 minutes ago, RedRooster said:
It's a GT6 MK3, domed pistons, it is an interference design. When mine went bang it needed a new block.
RR
Good to know! This is making me think it might be time to give a professional a chance to look at it. Luckily, a neighbour has recommended a 72 year old mechanic that's "seen it all before" and likes playing with classics.
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38 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
yes . no, yes , er no, it will be fine, no it wont ,
the answer is reset the cam sprocket reset the timing then tell us !!!
a worn chain will make the cam late but not as much as 6deg maybe get a chain as a standby
you understand the sprocket holes are indexed so you can get something like 1/4 tooth increments by swapping bolt holes and you can turn the thing over and
get more .
Pete
I've read about how to adjust the cam timing, but I've never done it (or even removed the timing chain cover).
Any idea how much of a tooth 6 degrees is?
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The skin has grown back on my finger and I repeated the whole procedure again, this time taking all the sparkplugs out first!
1) TDC market on the crankshaft pulley appears to be in the correct place (feeling the piston position through #1 sparkplug hole.
2) After widening the gaps on valves 1 & 2 as per the workshop manual, the gaps are definitely not equal at TDC.
3) The part I missed last time, the "balance point" where the gaps on valves 1 & 2 are equal seems to be 6 degrees after TDC.
What have I learnt:
1) It doesn't save time to try doing any work on the engine without removing the sparkplugs. Without the sparkplugs it was far easier to make fine adjustments to the crank position (and I kept the skin on all my fingers).
2) Sadly, I can't turn the engine using the nut on the end of the alternator, the pulley turned, but the fan belt didn't.
3) It's possible that my camshaft has been 6 degrees out for the last 15 years (when a reconditioned engine was fitted), and somehow my ignition needs to be way out in the opposite direction for the engine to run smoothly.
So, I ask the combined triumph hive mind, does a camshaft set 6 degrees After TDC make sense to cause the engine to need ignition set to 20ish degrees Before TDC to run smoothly?
Thanks in advance.
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3 hours ago, Steve P said:
I use a ratchet spanner on the alternator pulley to turn it over without plugs in.
S
Great tip, I'll give that try.
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31 minutes ago, johny said:
If the valve timing is confirmed to be wrong have a think about how to adjust it before starting. Heres my thoughts:
Assuming the sprockets arent marked youre going to have to be careful to keep everything aligned. I would turn (always normal direction of rotation) the engine to TDC and measure the clearances on valves 1 and 2 (having previously set them to 40thou). Then very carefully remove the pulley and cover and, checking you still have the same valve clearances, mark the positions of both sprockets relative to the backplate.
Next is the delicate bit as the crank musnt move while you undo the cam sprocket and remove it along with the chain. Once thats removed, temporarily put the sprocket back on in the same position and use it to turn the cam to its rocking position as indicated by equal valve clearances - again mark its position relative to the backplate. Use the loose chain pulled tight on the right hand side of the sprockets to try to estimate the misalignment of the teeth. I think it could be only a quarter tooth out and if so undo the sprocket again and flip it over before reattaching it. Check the set up again with the chain and confirm that neither crank or cam (clearances equal) has moved before putting the chain and sprocket back on.
Temporarily install pulley and rotate the engine twice until you get back to the position you marked originally as TDC and check rocking valve clearances. If correct put cover back on (see method for fitting chain tensioner) along with pulley and before bolting up recheck valve timing.
Thanks. That all makes a lot of sense. I was hoping to have another play with the car today, but my fingers haven't recovered from 2 hours of pulling the fan belt to turn the engine on Saturday yet (see photo). I have labelled all my spark plug leads so that next time I do a final check that the cam timing is off, I don't (stupidly) think I'm saving time by not removing the spark plugs.
GT6 Mk3 only runs well with VERY advanced timing. Any ideas why?
in Electrical System
Posted
That looks like a very good idea, and a lot less expensive than an impact driver.
I'm still hoping brute force, a hammer and a blow touch will shift it, as I'd like to get the job done without waiting for new tools to be delivered.