JumpingFrog
-
Posts
133 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
4
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Downloads
Store
Events
Posts posted by JumpingFrog
-
-
Apologies to Pete for diverging off topic...
7 hours ago, JohnD said:A glimpse into your epic trip! Will we be able to read more, with pictures, some time? That would increase my envy of you and your enterprise in taking it on, but in a good way!
Thank you for the kind words, and sorry its taking so long! Soon, there will be a video, maybe even this weekend (if I don't get distracted!). I also started writing it up a while back, but admittedly lost my way and started building a new gearbox for my other car instead...
6 hours ago, Nick Jones said:Damn..... that IS high. No wonder you had sooty plugs. No PI equipped car need attempt that one! After experiencing 3,700m on Mount Teide a few weeks back I suspect you were wishing for a personal supercharger as well.....
Performance did take a hit, yes. Maybe 30mph top speed, not to mention the mysterious tanks we had to buy our fuel from. Of course, advertised as 92 octane, but I doubt it! Fortunately, not a problem given the altitude and our low compression 8:1 engine. More speed was never really wanted given the local "road" conditions:
-
Very interesting Pete, I have a little story regarding this from my adventure last year:
In Osh, Kyrgyzstan there's a huge auto-bazar made up of shipping containers. We needed more spark plugs having used up all 8 of our spares due to running rich at high altitude (4000m+)... We found a helpful (and extremely honest) seller who spoke some english... He warned us against buying his as they were all fake and would only last "1000 km". Instead, he took us around to his competitor's stalls and found us some "okay" ones... Still fakes - this time "Toyota OEM" NGKs, he said these would last at least 3000km!
We didn't use them in the end, managed to make the last set last the remaining 9,000 miles. All of them looked convincingly genuine too, only way to tell was to compare the box colours and insulator printing against our genuine ones from the UK.
Something you take for granted in the UK, given I can buy a set of 4 genuine NGK BP6ES for around £6 from ECP. You'd have thought the profit margin in copying cheap plugs (unlike the fancy ones) would be negligible...
Obligatory pass summit picture (Ak-Baital, 4,655m):.jpg.d89c500eff50315dc0afea0ddcd3125b.jpg)
-
3
-
-
11 hours ago, Anglefire said:
having it more towards the centre makes sense (For some reason, I thought it was more towards the back - and I can't even remember what it was like when I took it off- and it was only Sunday!)
The pickup does go to the back. Allegedly this change was done to prevent starvation when climbing. However, there have been reports that it can cause starvation under hard barking (track use) or descending, instead. If you were serious about this though you'd probably baffle the sump as well, I doubt it'd ever be a problem on the road unless your oil level was already dangerously low.
Here's a picture of the angled pump fitted to a block:
-
14 hours ago, Black Cat said:
I did see they had rocker paint in gold but was the colour not the reddish orange for a 1977 Spitfire?
This is one I did with the club shop aerosol, I would agree that its nowhere near as orange as the original...
I'm not sure what's original for your car, e.g. for the 13/60 Herald launched in 1968 I believe all but the very early ones had silver rocker covers. Certainly every late rocker cover I've ever seen (with the breather outlet) has been silver.
I do like the gold... I recall reading somewhere the original colour is related to Ferguson tractors. Perhaps this is the shade: http://vintagetractorengineer.com/2009/01/ferguson-fe35-golden-grey/? -
Bolts in place of the brake back plate, allows you to use the puller to push the driveshaft through the bearing housing.
The alternative way is to clamp the bearing housing in the vice and hit the driveshaft through with a big hammer (after using a nut to protect threads)... -
5 hours ago, JohnD said:
JF,
If OD 3rd isnt the same as normal 4th, its damn near!
I wouldn't go as far as damn near, I agree it's close. Here's a table anyway. Lower bit of the table are speeds in MPH for different revs.
-
4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:
The od will work in 3rd and 4th, but 3rd od is same ratio as 4th , as the ratios are not spread out well by triumph
This is true for "close ratio" gearboxes (GT6, Vitesse, TR7, Dolly 1850) which have 3rd = 1.25.
But not so with the wider ratios in a Spitfire, 3rd = 1.39:1.
Assuming a 25% J-Type, 3rd + OD is 1.1:1, which is a decent intermediate gear for low-speed cruising. E.g. with a 3.63 diff, 30mph @ ~1800 rpm or 40mph @ ~2400rpm. -
Estate (and Courier) springs have less leaves, but they are much thicker.
As Richard showed, graphite grease between the leaves is a good idea, it prevents binding. You can also wrap it in Denso tape to stop dirt getting in:
Information from the workshop manual, hope its useful:
-
Nope. But, usually the part number is left visible (e.g. facing the wheel) for the next person, but that's just courtesy.
However, the needle roller is sided as the cage is thicker/flatter on the text side, this is the side you should press/hit (e.g. text faces the diff). -
Did the Hardknott and Wrynose in the estate shortly after running in, mostly in first gear. The engine has the so-called "suicide" Spitfire 1500 oil pump pick up (back of sump). Which apparently can give starvation under hard braking or down hills. However, no issues, checked oil level before and tried to avoid rapid changes in speed. Never saw oil pressure dip. Enjoy the drive.
P.S. Also got clipped doing this, as someone going downhill decided not to give way...
-
3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:
It could be the grip/drive on the copy lathe , the end faces would be faced and there has to be a initial centre before boring to cut the outline there wont be a chuck so thats the best i can suggest as part of the machining processing.
Pete
This seems more likely than hardness testing, I've dug out a picture (very out of focus) of mine. Certainly has way too many marks to suggest hardness testing... Anyway, not something worth worrying about, as they all have them.
Back on topic, this is an interesting modification, I'm aware that the cyclic load from an OD's pump does seem to put more pressure on these. Have you considered if the new spacer needs to be hardened? - I've never checked if the original ones are or not...
-
I think the pot marks might be from hardness testing at the factory. Ive seen it on my gearboxes too...
-
Very nice Spitfire, I'm a fellow young (24) member, nowhere near Gloucestershire so can't help you there. Good luck with your engine rebuild, are you planning any improvements in the process?
3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:you need to look for a hand stamped it should be TCK1155
FWIW, there are some factory unleaded heads, mine is marked "TKC3239", I think it came from a California car. They're a bit strange as they have inserts on inlet valves too. Although, pretty sure they weren't fitted to UK models. I used it on a 1300 to lower the compression (down to ~8:1) and run bad petrol (< 90 RON), but that's another story!
P.S. This site is helpful for stuff like this: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm#heads
-
They should swivel with light effort as far as possible until the slot contacts the pin. It's very common for them to seize - I always take them apart, clean them up and add some grease. The split pin is not original either, should be a roll-pin.
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, johny said:
what might the symptoms be of wear on the teeth of a hub inner?
Purely speculating, but I think changes would feel "sticky" and maybe even reluctant to come out of gear. The photos appear to show that splines are no longer uniform/straight. I'd hypothesise the wear here is a result of the detent springs failing, allowing misalignment/movement of the outer, in turn causing increased fretting and wear when in gear.
2 hours ago, kramnamrof said:It is quite easy to move the 1st/2nd gear outer. Certainly it is a lot easier than the 3rd/4th gear outer.
Yes, it sounds like they've failed, it shouldn't take a force much different to 3/4. There's a specification somewhere, but I personally don't see a reason to measure/shim them. I've never actually seen one shimmed in the 5 or so I've taken apart. -
The detent springs do fail. Always worth replacing these given their minimal cost. The detent is important as they allow pressure to be exerted on the synchro ring before the outer releases (see pdf at the end). Of course, there may be other issues too, as Pete explained. Do make sure the clutch is fully releasing as he suggested, a common symptom of this is a crunch when you select reverse (because it's sliding mesh).
From the pictures, your gearbox shows signs of weak or broken detent springs. How easily can the outer be moved? They usually take a fair bit of force, wear gloves as you can easily cut yourself on the sharp dog teeth when it suddenly releases...
Best bet is to get yourself a donor gearbox (or two) and mix and match the best parts. There are no good quality new synchros available for the small-chassis gearboxes as far as I know. It seems everyone sells the same reproduction ones (County?). Used synchro rings work perfectly fine providing they are carefully checked. There are two sizes of synchro ring, I believe a Spit Mk. IV gearbox will have the later large size. Be aware also of the input/main shaft bearings, the ones sold now are poor so don't change them unless required.
For a replacement hub (which you need if it is as worn as it appears), it is little documented that the hub inners fitted to Midget 1500 gearboxes are made of a better material that don't wear as badly. However, there are at least two different versions; (big reverse teeth, small reverse teeth (what you have)). Synchro rings (all large size, p/n 150328) and so forth are interchangeable as they're the same gearbox but built in a different factory. The gears themselves are different (slightly different ratios).
Easy to spot the difference (on a 3/4 hub), left is used MG (but still serviceable), right part is NOS Triumph:
P.S. This pdf has some good diagrams describing the complete synchronisation process (slides 22-28) also clash (50-52): https://www.hoerbiger.com/upload/file/2013_basicsofsynchronizers.pdf
P.P.S. You can still get a NOS second gear for a Spit Mk. IV gearbox: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-154479 -
1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:
this is a copy from moss of 1500 midget, the front mounts look similar
Pete
Engine front plate looks normal to me (both on that Midget engine, and the photos from Ryan). I've checked the Midget parts book and the front plate has the same p/n (215372) as the Triumph one so it can't be that.
Anyway, the latest photo shows it has a recessed head gasket and is definitely large crank so Dolomite would fit. Value-wise? Not much I'm afraid.
Engine prices vary but £50 would be a good ball-park value, as there are no ancillaries etc. Sometimes they go for more, but usually that's for small-crank Spitfire engines or with ancillaries.3 hours ago, NonMember said:I don't recognise CB for a gearbox. GB would be a Herald 1200 or 13/60, which is what it looks like.
I agree with this, gearbox is from a 1200 or 13/60 Herald and worth maybe £20 - the C must be a badly stamped G.
-
I'd say it's been reconditioned at some point and that number was added then.
As Nick said, picture of the crank pulley would help to ID it as a small-crank 1300 Mk3 Spit (FD)/early Herald 13/60 (GE).If it's large crank, you can't conclusively ID it easily (sump could have been changed)...
But from the pictures:- Fuel pump studs appear to be shorter length (e.g. no spacer).
- Has an alternator mounting bracket.
- Doesn't appear to have a tag on back of head gasket (not 100% sure from picture though), so not a recessed block.
- The gearbox is 3-sync early Spitfire (Mk1-3, not Mk IV 4-sync as I believe that had a round O/P flange) or Herald...
-
Check that the driveshaft flange bolts are tight, this is often the source of a clunk, won't affect ride height though...
-
1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:
1500 and 1850 internals are not the same. While casing, shafts and change mechanism are the same, the gearsets are different with different ratios. The 1850 being the same close ratio gearing as the GT6 and Vitesse and also TR7 4 speed.
There are other variations within the extended BL family, especially Marina and Ital which I'm not familiar with.
Nick
Ah yes, I see I've misinterpreted JK's email on that website. So the 1500 RWD is the same as Spitfire/Toledo (which you'd expect).
Process of elimination, might help:
Marina 1300 input shaft has a change in diameter just before the splines (taken from eBay) so it's not that:
TR7 is very very long, see this comparison, Spit right, GT6 middle, TR7 right:
So that leaves 1850 Dolly or Marina 1800. This is a comparison of Spitfire and 1850 from this forum thread (https://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1460769) :
I'd say that the one you have is longer than the 1850 in this picture. So that leaves Marina 1800? Unless some machining has already been done. Either way, I'm interested to know what Mike says it actually is so do keeps us informed.-
1
-
-
http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spit_and_gt6_specs.htm
Says that YD is 1500 RWD 1975 on, with internals the same as Dolly 1850, although not sure if that extends to the input shaft as well. Be aware that this would give you a close ratio gearbox (GT6 ratios), with first being at 2.66:1 instead of the usual 3.5:1. Although I'm sure Mike will advise you on whats best.-
1
-
-
I suspect this is where the drilling for the third main was done (or some other oil feed). Never worked on a 6-cylinder, but on a 4-cylinder a drilling from here goes across to meet up with the angled drilling from the centre main bearing holder.
Side note, watch the gangs of drills in this video (9:07), fascinating stuff showing a Morris engine being made.
-
1
-
-
On 30/09/2018 at 18:59, Darren Groves said:
Thanks Pete
Out of interest then, why did 148409 supersede 113797, the later is listed for 3rd/4th Hub but NLA.
Darren
Apologies for not actually answering the question, but interested in the differences between 148409 and 113797. I took a few old 3-rail boxes apart last year for the Mongol Rally car and found a difference in the synchro rings in one gearbox. No idea if the gearbox was original to the car (registered early 1967) or even if the rings are original to the gearbox, but everything else was identical to the other boxes. At any rate they weren't doing a lot of synchronising so they were either completely worn out (they look it) or match up to different gears (cone angle?). Canley's list them as interchangeable (at least 113797 says use 148409)...
Later type, 148409:
From eBay, listing for an 113797, looks to have the narrower channels interrupting the ridges as in my first picture.
-
Thanks for the support guys. Just getting ready for the return through Russia as the car is still mostly up for it. Although the front springs and suspension bushes (have spares) are a bit tired after 1000km of washboard gravel in Mongolia.
-
1
-
.jpg.d89c500eff50315dc0afea0ddcd3125b.jpg)
Removing prop flange on Herald G/B
in Gearbox & Overdrive
Posted
I've had trouble with these also, for a really stuck one (had spent a few years outside) I resorted to my new press:
If you have a bearing separator (as above) but with a puller like this, that would be ideal:
https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/automotive/separators-and-coil-spring-compressors/mechanical-bearing-separator-set-30-75mm/p/KEN5034750K
P.S. The next step, removing the extension can also be fun. Sometimes the bearing in the end also rusts to the main shaft. And since the extension is aluminium, it doesn't like having a lump hammer taken to it...