JumpingFrog
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Posts posted by JumpingFrog
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3 hours ago, Nick Jones said:
You've found the weak point (or one of them) on the repro shafts then...... Never seen an OE shaft fail like that, though I did once manage to dismantle one at that point after a lengthy and bloody battle.
Actually I agree with your Kyrgyz mechanic re the welding, assuming you meant welding around the exposed side? Though it is a bit of a case of what is the greater weakness!
I would be happy to weld around the inside, where the extreme end of the shaft sits inside the UJ trunnion, though you'll probably need to split the UJ to get access.
Was it really a roll pin that failed? Absolutely NOT fit for purpose in that application - it takes the cornering loads ffs! OE ones are solid and something tough.
Love the middle of the road fix pic........ presumably traffic was quite light?
May the force be with you!
Nick
Definitely a roll pin... Will think about splitting the UJ to get the internal welded if we break another. I assume welding the outside could make the driveshaft brittle?
OE shafts probably have an advantage in that they are well rusted together at this point in their life.
The mechanic definitely knew his stuff but only spoke Russian. He didn't charge for the repair either as it only took 10 minutes!
Quite light traffic in those parts, mostly Chinese lorries crawling along. Would've preferred to not be in the middle, but was a bit immovable once we skidded to a halt
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We had a reproduction drive shaft fail (8,000 miles old) 2 days ago on the Pamir Highway, Tajikistan. Bad roads (gravel, potholes, washboard, the lot) yet it failed on a relatively smooth tarmac section dodging a pothole. Skidded to a halt with nasty noises. Fitted a spare (1 of 2) with the car beached in the middle of the road about 70km from anywhere.
Failed at the yoke, roll pin snapped and splines popped out.
We had it repaired today in Osh, Kyrgyzstan (as a future spare), pin replaced with a tightish fitting bolt and welded into the yoke. We thought welding shaft to yoke would help strengthen it but the Kyrgyz mechanic insisted it would weaken the shaft.
Any ideas?
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2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:
Perhaps we'll only get to read about in on their return? They appear to be doing it on their own, rather than getting sponsorship or help (or have I missed that bit?)
It seemed a bit touch and go at the start of the year, when the car looked like this...
The trip itself (and car) is entirely self-funded, we only ask for donations to charity (Macmillan and Cool Earth), you can donate here:
https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/Team/TriumphandTribulations
Thanks for the kind words, we're taking a rest day today, and crossing our fingers the car can stand the heat as its 35c today in Yerevan but it'll be 40c in Iran and Turkmenistan. Heater on perhaps... -
12 hours ago, Spitfiredriver71 said:
Does anybody know what the clearances are for the main and bigend bearings for a Spitfire IV 1300?
While I have the engine out I thought I would check the bearing tolerances with some plasti gauges.
Using data from the Vitesse/GT6 workshop manual (same bearing size as a "big crank" 4-cylinder), see: http://vitessesteve.co.uk/Servicemanuals
No clearance figure given for the mains, but I suppose it can be calculated (weird that its listed as 2", I was convinced it was 2.3"...):
Main journal size: 2.0005 - 2.0010"Main bearing size 2.0022 - 2.0024"
The tightest it could be would be small bearing - biggest journal = 1.2 thouThe loosest is biggest bearing - smallest journal = 1.9 thou.
For the big ends, the clearance is given in the manual; 1 - 2.7 thou. Seems like a large range compared to my guesstimate for the mains.
FWIW when I rebuilt my small-crank Herald engine (reground crank) I ended up with 2 thou on the mains and 1.5 thou on the big ends. Oil pressure seems alright... Happy rebuilding
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1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:
but we didnt get the engine prefix till later on GK is spot on for a late 13/60, who knows where the solex came from
presumably fitted by a misguided stromberg alien. as some sort of fix/downgrade/problem solving gesture
if its jetted for the 1200 it wont run at its best , a well sorted 60 on a strom. is quite nippy.
Pete
The original poster never gave the engine number, only the chassis number (hence the CV suffix). The GE prefix was used for both the chassis and engine, if his car was built in 1970 it should have a GK as the changeover point was in 1969.
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If you've got a solex fitted, you also have the wrong engine. More likely than not a 1200 engine, very common with these cars as so much can be swapped about.
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Can't offer too much advice on gear selection as I've only every rebuilt the 3-synchro gearbox. The spacing and width of second and third gear would depend on the countershaft cluster, I suspect they beefed up second gear at some point during production? Perhaps one is Dolomite or even Marina... Make sure you check the dog teeth for damage on which ever gear set you end up choosing.
Mix and match the synchro rings. A bigger gap between gear face and synchro ring is usually better as it implies the ridges within are less worn down. They should be pretty sharp:
And definitely not look like this:
If you cleanup the rings and gears, you can gauge the friction by pressing the ring against the gear and twisting. You should feel the ring grip the gear (they sometimes screech too). If my notes are correct, somewhere around 35 thou gap is what you should expect. -
To elaborate on Mark's reply, standard here refers to the material the bearings are made from. This is specific to County/King bearings, STD will be a bi-metal aluminium material which isn't the greatest. The other material is sold as "heavy-duty" "tri-metal" or "lead-copper" I think these are marked CP or something along those lines. This is closer to the original VP2 bearings Triumph fitted at the factory...
The King website is quite informative with regards to their materials:
- Bi-metal bearings: http://www.kingbearings.com/material-type/aluminium-based/ (I think K-783 is the STD material).
- Tri-metal bearings: http://www.kingbearings.com/material-type/copper-based/ (I think K-794 is the CP material).
Point of interest: When you take an old engine apart, you can see when a VP2 bearing is knackered as all the babbit material gets worn away leaving just copper:
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As Pete said, use the proper puller tool (Canley's sell a nice one: https://www.canleyclassics.com/miscellaneous-tools-and-paint/hub-pulling-tool), you might be able to find someone who can lend you one. The hubs are really tight on the taper...
Inspect the shaft carefully, the needle rollers are prone to damage the surface and leave galling marks (or I'm just unlucky). Personally, I'd only use decent bearings, the needle roller bearing is a Torrington B-168 and the ball bearing is an RHP RLS8. This isn't a job you want to repeat too often... -
James Paddock take PayPal, or at least they used to. Always had a good service from them, but selection isn't as good as Rimmers/Canleys.
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On 22/07/2017 at 8:47 AM, Colin Lindsay said:
Incidentally I was looking at this photo of a rebuilt engine recently.... anyone know what the paint is to get that lovely matt factory-looking finish? Everyone seems to sell gloss....
I got a finish similar to this with Tetrosyl/Carplan matt black engine lacquer. Paid £10 for a small tin from a small auto factors though! Link to it here.
Pretty pleased with the result, although for some inexplicable reason I painted the sump and back plate with a different paint.
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It goes on the gearbox, there's a rod that goes from this to the gearbox mount on the chassis, with a bush at either end. The bar is usually missing, not exactly sure of its intended purpose. But I assume it's some sort of torque link to stop the mounts twisting?
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Apologies for the continued thread hijack
7 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:Ok been out to the garage to check details: the bearings are Hoffman N2897 V2; I'll post a photo in case it's needed for reference.
Have you checked which seal Canleys sell? I've found three different types; the one to the right is the one that was originally fitted but I've found a close replacement (left) part number 148322 and a taller spring-loaded version (centre) which has a Unipart number S4321 D1.
Thanks for the follow up.
I'm not entirely sure what Canley's sell - 100858? Yet they list 148322 as NLA. However, Paddock's etc. have 148322 which Canley's, Revington and Mick Dolphin list as "compatible/interchangeable" with 100858.
Bearings wise, Timken's interchange list says 8016 (maybe), but these are expensive and look a little odd:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p152773/8016-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-with-Extended-Inner-Ring-Felt-Front-Seal-No-Back-Seal-16x35x12.7mm/product_info.html
I need to take mine apart and assess it before ordering the parts, I have a feeling the shaft may be damaged. -
1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:
If your pump has a nut on the pulley you can dismantle them; if it hasn't, it's 'solid state' as they used to say. I rebuilt one a while ago, located the bearings and the rubber bellows, and dismantled the entire unit - you have to melt the solder on the impeller to remove it and when replacing it set the proper distance from the body with feelers before resoldering it. They're nice, the impeller is all brass in the old units, but it's a lot of work to refurbish one.
Colin,
I'm now intrigued about rebuilding my old pump - I've bought a press recently and fancy giving it a go if I can get the parts. My old pump was a brass impeller one, nicely made as you say. I've noticed that Canley's sell the seal, but would you happen to still have information about the bearings etc.?
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I found this series a little while ago whilst looking into rebuilding a pump:
- https://www.madbrits.org/Tech-h2opump1.htm
- https://www.madbrits.org/Tech-h2opump2.htm
- https://www.madbrits.org/Tech-h2opump3.htm
Definitely an interesting series of articles, but decided to just take my chances with repro water pumps instead...
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I'm not sure those bearings are tri-metal, they look shiny to me, wheras tri-metal are matt. The part numbers are a little confusing, more info here: http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/6055-confusing-bearing-part-numbers/ I'd replace them for the sake of £60~. All suppliers will sell County thrust washers - unless they have old stock, I don't think there's any issue using these. I used James Paddock for my engine parts last time, pistons, bearings and thrust washers.
The thrust washers you've removed look quite worn to me, you can see the surface breaking up. However, you won't go far wrong with a pair of STD and a pair of +5. Remember that both +5s will reduce end float by 10 thou. You can also machine or lap down (against a flat surface) the back if required.
Side note: I prefer to measure end float with a dial gauge, using a screwdriver on the centre main cap to move the crank, as per the workshop manual. This will probably give you a slightly higher figure.
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1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said:
How do we feel about con rod lock tabs? My GT has them and Rimmers show them on TR2 -4a, but not GTs or Spitfires.
I had a re-used bolt shear, causing catastrophic damage, my first rebuild. I used new bolts and tabs, but this was 1980s so bolts would be from the good bucket.
https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-105313
Early Spitfire and Herald engines had lock tabs (https://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-spitfire-mki/ii-crankshaft-and-camshaft). I discussed adding lock tabs with the engineer when I did my Herald engine, but he warned against it. He said he'd had problems with soft lock tabs on other engines messing up torque readings. Triumph removed the lock tabs quite early on in production and never reinstated them despite loads increasing considerably (e.g. 1296cc, 1493cc) . You'd hope they'd have put them back for the sake of a few pence if they reduced engine failure rates...
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If you want to uprate the big end bolts but don't feel like splashing out on ARP, you can also use Cosworth (YB?) bolts. These used to be cheap, but only Burton power (SC248) seems to have them now (£7.61 ea). Personally, I'd just check the originals for signs of stretch and reuse them. I wouldn't bother changing the main bolts either, and I don't think loctite is a good idea.
When you check the shells, if it has been built with cheap bi-metal ones (you can tell by colour and the markings on the rear) then replace them with lead/copper. Also worth making sure the crank end float is correct (oversize thrust washers usually required, get them the right way round too...). The best currently available bearings are King Tri-metal which most suppliers (e.g. Paddocks) sell. Vandervell do come up on eBay from time to time, but most are showing their age from long term storage.
As JohnD mentioned, you can optimise the pump to minimise clearances between the body and rotor, see: http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/OilPump.htm
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I recently rebuilt a pump with a Canley's kit (albeit for a smaller Herald pump). And I had this problem, I believe you'd be correct that the fibre washer goes on the screw for the cap as that's where I used mine. My kit did come with a mysterious moulded rubber cup that seemed to fit over the shaft and into the recess in the pump body? In the end, I didn't risk using it, instead I reused a slightly better washer/seal from a scrap pump. Perhaps you could cut a washer/seal from some oil resistant rubber or other suitable material?
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Fuel pipe, pump to carbs. Improvements.
in Fuel System
Posted
The stock routing is definitely not ideal, it doesn't take much for petrol to boil - especially European ethanol blends. After breaking down on the autobahn we replaced the rigid line with r9 running under the engine along the steering rack and back up to the carb.
This still wasn't enough, so in Iran (40c+ in the desert, dry heat) we had an electric fuel pump fitted to minimise heat in the petrol before the carb.
Before we left I did some thermal imaging shots, you can see the amount of heat around the cylinder head, not an ideal place for a fuel pipe to run. The water pump housing is also pretty hot.
All this said, on my other Herald I've never had a problem. The single SU seems more prone than a Stromberg. A carb heat shield definitely helps.