Wagger

Taper shaft fits are notoriously good at fusing together. (Some refer to it as 'Cold Welding'). I have had to tighten pullers up, stuff the whole lot in the chest freezer (when cook was out). Then pour boiling water over the outer part in order to break the join. Always leave the retaining nut or bolt just a turn slack or it could shoot you somewhere really painful when it releases. In extreme cases I have used a blowlamp, but that really should be a last resort as the part could be degraded or made brittle. (See what I wrote about 'Materials' in the general section) Anyway, I need one of these but, for some stupid reason, the site won't let me log in and order one. It did not like 'Firefox' last time. Can I phone in and order one?

Just checked the books again. The drawings are in a strange projection. Sort of perspective, not isometric. It does appear that the ridge is between 2&3, but the actual sump drg shows it between 1&2. Careful transposition reveals that I was incorrect. It is between cranks 1&2. Apologies. All will become clear during this week whan I crawl under and take measurements. Only want to do that once. Last week the fifth crawl under resulted in a delay of five minutes trying to return to my feet. This is crazy. Legs won't go but I can still do 25 press ups. Will try walking on my hands next time. (I wish) Thanks for your comments and patience guys.

Thanks guys, that explains a lot. The hole has been cut in the 'Wrong' place for either of those covers shown. However, my factory workshop manual, and most Vitesse sump pictures show the ridge between cylinders 2 & 3. The one on your photo is between 1&2, so is my mate's beaten in 2500 sump. Therefore, mystery not quite solved. The book could be wrong, but it is the Stanpart one issued to dealers. I'll go to a show next weekend and ask owners to 'Pop their bonnets's, Watch out for Wagger.

I believe that one of you has hit 'The nail on the head'. The mechanics show no sign of anything 'Non standard) but the gearbox cover is fibreglass and has a 'Hacked out' hole. However, the carpet set, new in 2002, fits nicely,BUT, the gearstick exits at the extreme rear of it. There are no spacers between bell housing and engine or between bell housing and gearbox. Maybe the remote shifter is not Vitesse. When able, I will crawl under, mearsure the prop length, flange to flange, and double check that it is not fully 'compressed. Last time I looked, it suggested that it had some distance left. Measuring will confirm. Going to look at a modified sump today just five doors down the road where a guy is restoring a 2500 engine to fit in his GT6.

Sorry guys, you will have to be patient with me. I am living with advanced prostate cancer, which renders me tired with lack of stamina. When I feel well I overdo it then suffer for a day or so. However, I can tell yo that the gearbox is the three rail 306468, late GT6 and Early Dolomite version. I know that the engine blocks are identical, but the gearbox may be longer than the Mk1 Vitesse 2 litre. I merely wanted some measurements to confirm. Will borrow my wife's phone soon to take pictures as my Samsung camera refuses to take close ups. I am not asking anyone to guess. I asked for dimensions and did receive an answer to one of those. The bell housing is definitely Vitesse and is bolted right up to the engine with no sign of a spacer. It may be that the rear extension and remote shifter are longer than Vitesse versions. Next time the cover is off, I will take pictures.

Does the clb shop sell this tool? If so, I want to buy one. If not, does anyone live near enough to Eastbourne for me to hire it from them. Will pay whatever deposit is required.

Sorry DanMi. My earlier post described that mine was an overdrive car from new. It has the shorter propshaft and tunnel cut away but all has been ftted to cater for this. Cannot shorten any further without cutting or spreading the chassis. The engine (2500TC) is almost 3/4 inch too rearward and the gearbox stick exits 1.5 inches too far rearward. I am just trying to obtain the 'Standard' dimensions from other Vitesse owners. I had two of them in the 1970's and swapped overdrive and non overdrive boxes over, with the props. I know what needs doing. (Wiser but incapable) I can do the work but my medical condition limits what I can do physically. It is very annoying. I can live with the car as it is because it all works. Working on it any more could take longer than my prognosis suggests. Doing the drive shafts next week, I hope, with the assistance of somebody with more stamina than me. Hopefully, it will be ready for BH weekend.

Should have asked this too. Does the recess in your Vitesse sump line up with the steering rack? And, is where is the ridge wrt the spark plugs? Is it between cranks 2&3 or 1&2? Workshop manuls may be wrong here.

Thanks again guys. You have given me some pointers.

Thanks guys. I have looked at various pictures and there is some variance. 30mm is approx 1.2 in. On my car it is 0.625 in which indicates that my engine is only 0.575 in rearward. The gearstick is 1.5 in rearward. To fit the overdrive would require me to shift all 3 inches forward. Pretty tall order. Will be leaving all as it is fr the forseeable. Just as previous thread.

My poor long suffering wife had a riding accdent as a child and had to have three fusions in her neck in her thirties. As a result four vertebra are joined together. She has been advised never to travel in anything without a head restraint. (Headrest). I know that some of you fit Mazda MX5 seats in Vitesses, but is anything else worthy. The MX5 is collectors car, so they will be expensive. I suppose a wander to a scrapyard could result in me seeing something. There are loads of small two door cars around but I'll bet most of these will be too tall, or they will be on sliding rails.

Hi Folks Just need a simple answer from you Vitesse owners. What is the distance between the rear of your rocker box cover and the Heater box? On mine, it is a mere 5/8 inch. The answer will allow me to determine just how much is due to the engine position and gearbox as the gearstick exit is 1.5 inches rearward.

For those of you who cannot sleep. This may be a cure. Many moons ago on 'Day Release' one of my five a week lectures was named 'Materials and their properties'. It was a very tedious topic causing most of us to yawn and some to succumbe altogether. (Sent outside too). However, I was 'Taught' the Electrical and Mechanical fundamentals of most metals and alloys. Here is what I remember, in completely random order. There will be errors, some of you will notice. Just want to pass on these memories in some form somewhere. Silver is the best conductor of electricity and Copper is second. Gold is not so good, but is used on connectors, usually over copper or silver plating. Why? Because silver tarnishes, copper develops verdigrie and gold stays clean. Tarnished silver does not conduct easily. Copper and copper oxide sandwiched together form a Copper Oxide rectifier. Used on 1950's motorcycles that were built with alternators. Gold just prevents the oxidation. A thin layer over silver or copper guarantees reliable connections. Aluminium conducts well but cannot be joined without corrosive fluxes. BT tried it out and many of us still suffer the noisy lines as a result. They try to deny it, but the engineers sent out admit it. If you trap a copper wire between two layers of aluminium, it will corrode away in no time due mainly to electrolytic action. Aluminium in a copper idc connector is a disaster. Iron and steel are not wonderful conductors and do not disperse heat as well as copper and aluminium. However, their magnetic properties are used widely in transformers . Now for the mechanical properties. (Are you asleep yet) Iron is refined to produce steel in various grades. Pure iron is the softest form and is used in transformers because it does not retain magnetisation as permanently as other types. Alternating current requires alternating magnetism. Low carbon steel (2% carbon) is called 'Mild steel' and is used widely (or was) for car bodies, cabinets some tools, nuts and bolts. Medium carbon steels exist (3 to 4% carbon) but I do not remember what they are used for. Maybe light duty springs. High carbon steels (5% carbon) are used for tools, springs, High tensile bolts and some magnets. These have very special qualities. If made red hot and cooled very quickly (cooling in water or oil) they are as hard as glass and will shatter or snap under sudden load or shock. If made red hot and buried in hot ash and allowed to cool, they will be soft and workable. Many of you 'Oldies' may have made tools of this before hardening and tempering them. The process is, harden as above, then polish them up to a mirror finish, heat one end gently and watch the colours flow. Light straw for hard, blue for softer. This works well for screw drivers and punches but using a controlled furnace is more accurate and used for spanners and springs where the whole part needs to be consistent (High tensile screws too). When cutting threads, beating or drilling this metal, care must be taken not to heat it or it will harden due to sudden cooling. Reading what has been written on hand thread cutting all that I can add is that I was taught half a turn forward, quarter turn back. Impatience gets the better of me, so I just add oil and plough on. All machines used for this just do it in one using lubricating coolant, so, why bother? Just keep the temperature down. All steels can be 'Case hardened'by heating to red and dipping in carbon. This just hardens the outside surface, It can make it impossible to cut a thread on or drill through. Wrought iron was very complex. Probably no longer made. It was 2% carbon but rolled hot, folded over and rolled again. It was folded and rolled many times producing a laminated grain structure making is very strong and ductile. It was used for crane hooks and chains because it would show grain stresses long before it broke. It also resisted sea water as well as cast iron. Used in the build of victorian piers. The Menai bridge was constructed using this. Fire destroyed it and is was no longer made in the sizes required for rebuilding as designed. Still awake? Copper is used for wires and pipes. Cold drawn copper is quite hard and does not bend easily. Soft copper 'Work hardens' so that if bent or beaten, it will take more force to straighten it. It can be softened easily by heating to red and allowing it to cool. Cutting threads on it is tricky. Dies will wander. Brass is roughly 60% Copper/40% Zinc. It can be worked like copper and polishes nicely. Both take chrome plating well. However, it is 'Hot Short'. If you make it red hot and drop it onto a hard surface, it will shatter into hundreds of fragments. Bronze is roughly 60% copper/40% tin. It is used to make bearings and springs. Phosphor Bronze is the best for this. About 2% Phosphorous if my memory is working properly. Berylium Copper (don't know the ratios) Hardens with age over two days. It can be softened with heat, formed in shape, then relied upon to work as a strong spring. Don't file it as the particles are carcinogenic. Aluminium is widely used nowadays in sheet form. Again there are many alloys. Duralumin is another that hardens with age over two days. It can be softenened and formed, then becomes as strong as the same gauge of spring steel at a third of the weight over a few days. Widely used in aircraft. Magnesium alloys are even lighter and just as strong. However, they deteriorate in sunlight and burn very easily. I have left out many, Cadmium, lead and others, but feel free to look them up. Stainless steels are another 'Chapter'. I would have to look them up. Hope some of that was useful.

In 1975, when I was almost 28, I took my pensioner Dad for an outing to see old friends in my 1600cc Vitesse. On the homeward journey a noise started that sounded like one tappet was very loose and the Vacuum gauge was oscillating merrily. The handbook for this suggested 'Broken valve spring'. Sure enough, next day it all became apparent when I removed the rocker box cover. This Vitesse had just one strong spring per valve and one on cylinder number 4 had broken. I purchased just one spring and two collets. If any of you ever repeat this process after reading all of it, arm yourself with spare collets, two broad motorcycle tyre levers, a length of skipping rope cord, a long thin screw driver, a small pair of mole grips and a trustworthy assistant. It needs four hands. Follow the steps below. Disconnect the battery and remove the spark plug for that cylinder. Use the screwdriver down the plug hole to find TDC on that cylinder on the firing stroke. Back it off about half an inch. Feed the cord into the bore until you can get no more in. Rotate the engine back towards tdc slowly and observe the valve stem. On mine, it poked almost right up. Stop before it recedes. Remove the spring cap, collets and the broken spring bits. This was easy, but the stem fell so that the collet recess was down in the guide, leaving a quarter of an inch of valve stem visible. Place the spring and cap in place. Now for the tricky bit. Hook the tyre levers under the rocker shaft one each side of the valve cap and lever down. Leave enough space to fit the collets. Now ask your trusted assistant to attach the mole grips to the valve stem and pull it up. Now ask this person to put the collets in place. One at a time did work (for us). Slowly release the tyre levers. Remove the cord and re-assemble. Job done! It all worked first time. Unbelievable. One false move and the collets could have been launched into oblivion. I told my younger brother after this and he did the same procedure on his Sherpa van some years later on a layby near Shoreham-by-sea on the A27. He did it alone by tying the tyre levers with an elastic strap. His van broke two on different cylinders and would not move the vehicle. I am a compulsive proble solver, so this sort of thing appeals to me. Unfortunately, I cannot solve probems that have not yet 'Appeared'. If only I could guess what is coming, Might have made a fortune. Oh well.

Sorry guys, posted this in general before I scanned down. Hi folks. I notice that some of you need special tools, books or manuals. Look at my youngest son's website at https://www.thetoolsquirrel.co.uk/ He has vices (so do I but one less after a prostate op, don't ask!) clamps, panel beating stuff, leather sewing kits and much more. He finds books and leaflets too. Found me a super factory workshop manual for Vitesse and GT6. He still has the all encompassing small chassis one. He is going to the Beaulieu Autojumble in a week or so.

Hi folks. I notice that some of you need special tools, books or manuals. Look at my youngest son's website at https://www.thetoolsquirrel.co.uk/ He has vices (so do I but one less after a prostate op, don't ask!) clamps, panel beating stuff, leather sewing kits and much more. He finds books and leaflets too. Found me a super factory workshop manual for Vitesse and GT6. He still has the all encompassing small chassis one. He is going to the Beaulieu Autojumble in a week or so.

If you guys want some nice tools, look at thetoolsquirrel on the internet. It is my youngest son's website. He has all sorts of vices (don't tell him I said that) clamps, even a nice Herald/Vitesse/Spitfire/GT6 factory workshop manual. I've got the Vitesse/GT6 only one AND I am keeping it. He does books, leaflets and tools for all trades. Will post this on General.

OK Guys, I measured the overdrive front to back and it would fit with the mods that you have all suggested. Remaining problem (apart from the sump) is that the 2500 front plate is still in place with its mounting extensions. It is a big(ish) job, so will leave it as is for now and try to enjoy the remainder of this 'Summer?' All drive shaft bits have arrived, so will crack on.

Well done! Hope that it stays put when you use the car. I was thinking of using the part that adjusts the bonnet that has LH and RH threads with a sturdy tie rod. If you don't wanna use the rear seats, you coul create a 'Triangle' between the post an prop tunnel, That'll be a permanent fix.

I am having trouble logging in to the site as a new member, so did it this way instead of on my profile. I am almost 74, living with cancer but in remission after chemo and radiotherapy. Some tasks are too much for me, but I have a load of experience with Triumph cars mainly, although I have done a ground up build of a Morris Traveller in 2002. I have owned two Vitesses, both 1600cc ones in the 1970's one saloon and one convertible. Both had the single big speedo. The saloon cost me £100 in 1972 at an auction and the convertible £41 two years later. I bought it because it had an overdrive. The chassis was awful so, I transferred the Overdrive to the saloon, had that resprayed for £65 and I sold the convertible with a new MOT for £70 with the saloon bits transferred. In those days one could buy an overdrive kit for under £100 and there was a company selling bits to convert a saloon into a convertible. When the saloon began giving problems at 160k miles, I sold it for £100 having used it for four years. Deviated into BMW land for a while (a 6 volt 1800 four door saloon) then bought a Triumph FWD 1500 in 1979. (Mallard colour). Sold that in 1987 and bought a 1500 Dolomite with square lights. Rebuilt another engine for it because of Big End failure. Gave that to my first wife and bought an 1850 Dolly with overdrive. Much nicer car. Frequently exceeded 35mpg and never had its head off in 180k miles. Before these Triumphs I had a Riley 1.5 saloon. The one with the 1489cc MGA engine. That gave Vitesses quite a challenge. 68 BHP in 16cwt, a match for the Vitesses 71bhp and 17cwt. Before that, I owned and rebuilt two Triumph motorcycles. Well, there are many Triumphs in the Bible. Can't have enough, really. My race tuned 500cc would do 0 to 60 in 6 seconds, 70mph in second gear. Inherited a BMW 2002tii in the 1990's and really enjoyed that. Zero to 100KPH (62.8mph) in 8 seconds. (Courtesy of Kugelfischer mechanical injection). None of my Triumphs ever managed that. It would do 35mpg on the motorway but a mere 8mph driven like a looney. (Oh what fun though). It was unbreakable, but required 5 star fuel really. One could buy Tetra-ethyl -Lead back then. I used octane booster. Found another BMW (2500 E3 forunner of the first five series) which was tax excempt. Then went though five more BMW's ending up with a straight six 330D manual touring that I had for 13 years before a van wrote it off this year. Same performance as the Tii but with 30 to 50 mpg. Also unbreakable. My eldest son is a petrol head and found a Vitesse for me on my birhday last year. I have posted all about it in the engine section. I must always have a straight six. Addicted to them! I will comment and give advice where I can. I served a five year engineering apprenticeship on switchgear that needed line reamers for bearings on large contactors, just like 'King pins'. Ended up working on tiny electronics and computer programming. I must pass my knowledge on whilst I am able. There ain't many of us left.

The gearbox is the early three rail one. The car does 35+ in first gear, so, probably a close ratio box. I have seen a chart with at least three different ratios listed. The current diff is the 3.89:1 version. Engine shifted rearwards causes less of a problem in the engine bay. I do not have the strength or stamina since chemotherapy to shift all of that heavy stuff. Grovelling on the floor is way too tiring. I will enjoy it as it is. It ain't broke so I won't fix it. I can walk tem milles a day, but up and down off the floor is really too much. Might even get another bod to do those uj's or remove them so I can do the bench work.

This bulletin is to impart information mainly. I am not asking for help. However, comments are welcome. Did some more thorough work and investigation on this Vitesse. The engine runs very nicely, even with the 'Pea shooter' exhaust. That's fine for now as it allowed me to identify the 'Other' noises and sources. I'll fit a bigger one when all else is sorted as the current pipework is a real mix of bores dowm to 1.75 inch o/d in places. The 2500TC engine is fitted so that the rack is halfway between cranks one and two. The recess in the Vitesse sump is between number three and four cranks, in fact, where the journal is. (That made perfect sense as designed) It has a Vitesse backplate and bell housing but the gearbox is a three rail 306468 type fitted to early Dolomites and late GT6's apparently. I will have to establish the ratios by turning and counting revolutions. As a result, the gearstick enters the car 1.25 inches rearward off centre with the carpet. In fact, the prop flange is where it would be on a normal overdrive model. I had to drill new holes for the gearbox mounting plate in order to relieve the stresses on the gearbox rubber mounts. This plate is now 5/8 inch rearward of the original holes. The plus's are that the gearbox is quite a strong one and the 2500 sump does just clear the steering rack, by a mere 3mm. Canting the engine slightly to the right by using the stock shims has given enough clearance for the front carb too. The engine mounts used are assymetric, so allow up to 3/4 inch of rearward movement of the engine. However, I believe that the mounts to the block have also been reversed. There is not much room between rocker cover and heater box. (Still cannot get my camera working properly, sorry!). The downside is that the overdrive will never fit unless the main chassis is modified. I can live without an overdrive because Eastbourne has very few dual carriageways and most drives will be on 'A' or 'B' roads. When I have checked the ratios, I will decide what diff to fit. A wider ratio box and a taller diff would be acceptable for me. I'll carry the overdrive in the boot just to comply with the badging! Changing sump and shifting everything back is a long job and may still result in not being able to fit it. Currently (apart from the seat stitching I am working on brake balance and the rear drive shaft UJ's. Now that the exhaust has an actual 'Silencer' they are sounding really scary. Luckily, the spares box contained a matched pair of front calipers already serviced. Somebody really loved this car! I have managed about ten miles so far testing it and it is really nice to drive, Maybe roadworthy as early as next week if I can change those UJ's easily.

Hi Guys. This will be the last post for a while. Grand-kids are here for a holiday/torment. This should really be in the 'Bodywork' section. My car is a saloon. I left all assembled and found that my ratchet straps would hook on to the door frames with the seals removed. I tightened two alternately watching for deformation as I proceeded. Nothing bent, to my amazement. When I could not ratchet any tighter (Weak since Chemotherapy) I just sat on them bouncing up and down, I then achieved two more ratchet clicks. You have to go about 4mm more in order for it to stay put. Also, you have to share the errors left and right. Disappointingly, it has spread slightly since doing it just two wees ago. (Ha ! that was meant to be weeks, it ain't hat bad and the wees are too frequent). Therefore, my statement that a tie bar is the only way to stop it. Maybe just ratchet it up when not using it. It might just get to a show without relapsing if that is the intention. I have left no marks on the door frames. I was surprised just how strong they are. Just make sure that you have good metal to begin with, or deformation may result. You could use long bolts into the door catch plates. Make sure that they are strong and tight. Not tried this yet but, if your doors need re-skinning, set them flush before welding as they can be twisted easily when separated. 2mm in the length of a door would hardly notice.

Reply to Dave first. The britax roof handle is plastic and broken. Has two 'Pips' on a 3/4 inch (approx) PCD circle. It looked like a minature window winder. I will make my own if 'The Trim Company' at Lewes in Sussex do not have one. I will be going there soon to look for one to fit my car. Some were mazac and T' shaped. They do mail order. Now for Paul. I used two strong ratchet straps between the door jams at the waist, Tightened them then sat on the straps, The only permanent 'Cure' is to fit a tie bar between the seat belt anchorage points using lifting eye bolts and forget carrying rear passengers. Maybe a roll cage frame would do too if you can find one. Sadly, it will gradually grow apart again. Log term metal fatigue is the cause. Shaving the door seals does help. If you try this, do it a little at a time or you could kink the rear wings at the base of the rear window. Then you will curse me for the suggestion.

Yes Clive. Kevin Perriman, a near neighbour wth a GT6 told me about those. I do intend to come along and was hoping to do it in the Triumph. Still might.