Vitesse 2 liter - cooling (and fuel) setup for extreme heat with no overheating

[James H]

1 minute ago, johny said:

ok the results are in, 20 - 60mph in 4th on flat gave 16 seconds buuut with largish passenger, roof (incl. all glass) and tools (although maybe not with quite as comprehensive a collection as you James!).

Really pleased actually as picked up cleanly and larger diameter tyres have actually corrected the speedo to coincide almost exactly with sat nav👍

Johny please theres no need to go easy on me, I'm a big boy and can handle the truth ! Seriously ? Mines faster, well thats a shocker !

[johny]

Well not much in it when other factors considered so Id say both are set up pretty much equally, and I assume well, unless someone else comes up with markedly quicker times....

[JohnD]

18 hours ago, Chris A said:

YUP! I've driven round there a few times, you can spot where the circuit deviates from the public road.

Back in the summer of 2023 I drove round the 1906 French GP circuit (apart from a couple of small sections that no longer exist) on the public roads used for the weekend event that became the LeMans 24 hours event we all know about. If anyone has nothing to do and can't sleep Check out The Courier, October 2023

Wow!  Something I'd never thought of doing!  Completely different from the circuit used since 1923 and a LOT longer.   Richard William's history of Le Mans only describes it as "a triangular, 63-mile circuit to the east of Le Mans", but while he includes maps of the later course, not this, so I had to do some Googling.  Here it is, compared with the modern course:

OH!  That straight between Le Mans and Saint-Calais!  (the course ran anti-clockwise)   It's 20 MILES LONG!  Puts the Mulsanne in the shade!

You've done it, Chris, any comments on what it's like now?    There can't be any relics after 120 years, but Williams describes "specially built grandstands" and "enclosures", attended by "tens of thousands " of spectators!

To be a pedant, the 1906 race was "Le Grand-Prix de l'Automobile Club de France".  It wasn't until 1911 that another race was called the Grand-Prix de France.  This was on on yet another road circuit, that first used the Mulsanne straight but went out from Le Mans to Le Grands-Luce and back via  Ecommoy, again ant-clockwise.  34 miles long!

Those on my list for 2025!  Any one for a convoy?

John

 

Edited Sunday at 10:52 by JohnD

[James H]

21 minutes ago, johny said:

Well not much in it when other factors considered so Id say both are set up pretty much equally, and I assume well, unless someone else comes up with markedly quicker times....

So just 2 secs in it... lets say all things were equal then with my smallish passenger balancing out the frankly ridiculous amount of gear in the car and the convertibles famous reinforcements definitely balancing out your extra roof 😛

How confident are you of the accuracy, did you find it tricky too ? I reckon I was within half a second...

[James H]

24 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Wow!  Something I'd never thought of doing! 

Those on my list for 2025!  Any one for a convoy?

 

Good job John, I also tried looking up the info from Chris' message and didn't get anywhere with it... sounds like fun, who knows, not saying no !

[johny]

12 minutes ago, James H said:

So just 2 secs in it... lets say all things were equal then with my smallish passenger balancing out the frankly ridiculous amount of gear in the car and the convertibles famous reinforcements definitely balancing out your extra roof 😛

How confident are you of the accuracy, did you find it tricky too ? I reckon I was within half a second...

Thought we'd discounted your imaginary reinforcing but yes your tools propably offset a lot of my roof and glass. Not too difficult to do once my passenger had been instructed but errors creep in from my start speed (using speedo once confirmed accurate), flat road and wind strength (I didnt do runs in both directions on the same road)... 

[James H]

22 minutes ago, johny said:

but errors creep in from my start speed

I know that was the hardest bit to get right...

So banter aside, considering my retarded timing alone I was sure you'd prove I was lacking real power but now, its completely thrown me... that was the whole point of doing it after all !

Back when I went to collect the car the po did mention having prepped it to some extent for the odd trackday but I knew nothing at the time, didn't understand what he was referring to and didn't give it much thought, looked standard enough to me. But maybe that explains the ride height and camber, although the 1600 brakes would suggest otherwise plus maybe 4th isn't standard ( you mentioned we should be doing around 1100 revs at 20mph yet I was doing approx 1300 ) and maybe the cam isn't standard either, who knows...

As you say "unless someone else comes up with markedly quicker times...." no conclusions can be made 👍

[James H]

Also all things considered I appreciate your honesty Johny, a gentlemans trust is still a thing then 👍

[johny]

well if money had been involved it would have been different😁

[James H]

You bet it would've 😁

[James H]

Before I leave you in peace how noisy are the hardtops inside ? I'll brave almost any weather with the roof down because of the racket it makes with it up, just curious...

[johny]

yes I know convertibles look oh so cool but they have got the disadvantages of noise and, talking of reinforcing, tub spread (search on here for more info). Of course noise is related to speed but at a comfortable cruising speed of 60mph mines not bad although Ive been working to reduce exhaust noise and would like to some more...

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

That straight between Le Mans and Saint-Calais!  (the course ran anti-clockwise)   It's 20 MILES LONG

The whole route was planned so there were long straights so the cars could go flat out.

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

There can't be any relics after 120 years, but Williams describes "specially built grandstands" and "enclosures", attended by "tens of thousands " of spectators!

The only 'relic' remaining is a pedestrian underpass that goes under the road, built so that spectators could go from the outside of the circuit to the inner part.

There were thousands of spectators, special trains were laid on to bring them down from Paris and other areas.

When I did the route I could identify certain points from old photos. Unfortunately 2 sections that were constructed on wooden surfaces are no longer there, but I did locate where one started and finished. One section was built to avoid going through a particularly tricky village centre.

The race was 6 laps on the Saturday and 6 more on the Sunday, ok not a 24 hours endurance but 'comme même' . .

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

To be a pedant, the 1906 race was "Le Grand-Prix de l'Automobile Club de France".

Yes I know, that is as I called it in my article, but just shortened it to same wear  on my finger tips 😄

It was an intersting project, researching the route and the location of the 'totems' and information panels on the circuit.

The route is a bit flat, not a lot up ups & downs or twisty bits - the objective was endurance not a scenic trip in the country side. It made an interesting day out for me across the border into the Sarthe

[James H]

Gotcha, yes its enough of an issue with mine to be one of the main reasons I'm hesitant to do a long trip... will lookup "tub spread" but if you've seen the panel gaps on mine you'll understand its something I've just come to live with, its all compromises eh 👍

I'm guessing for the southern spain trip you do the direct overnight ferry avoiding France ? An equivalent trip is something I hope to do one day, maybe a quieter exhaust is the answer...

[johny]

I think yours looks pretty good with minimal signs of tub spread but it can be quite a problem. Yes ferry Portsmouth - Santander or Bilbao, and then 3 or 4 days to get down south which is expensive but fantastic😍

A mid silencer is what Im looking at for mine...

[James H]

4 minutes ago, Chris A said:

'comme même'

I said the same for years, mainly because many french do too but it turns out its actually not correct, its 'quand même'... you're welcome 😉

Sounds like a great event, shame I'm so far away !

[James H]

1 minute ago, johny said:

I think yours looks pretty good with minimal signs of tub spread but it can be quite a problem. Yes ferry Portsmouth - Santander or Bilbao, and then 3 or 4 days to get down south which is expensive but fantastic😍

A mid silencer is what Im looking at for mine...

Ah yes I recall you said they were standard on the Mk2s only, I should do the same 👍

[johny]

No other way round, standard on mk1 but I fitted a mk2 stainless system on mine so no mid box...

[James H]

Ok gotcha, I'm without too so definitely the way to go, time to start enjoying roadtrips  

[James H]

Nearly forgot, maybe try feathering it next time 😛

[JohnD]

21 hours ago, Chris A said:

YUP! I've driven round there a few times, you can spot where the circuit deviates from the public road.

Back in the summer of 2023 I drove round the 1906 French GP circuit (apart from a couple of small sections that no longer exist) on the public roads used for the weekend event that became the LeMans 24 hours event we all know about. If anyone has nothing to do and can't sleep Check out The Courier, October 2023

Thanks, Chris, found it.  (pages 52-55 of that issue)    I wonder if a trip around the circuit from my desk  via Google Street View could find a few more 'totems'?

John

PS Yes!  Found one ,so far!    Google Street View resolution not good, but Berfay is on the Saint-Calais to Le Ferte-Bernard leg.  Just before the village, there is a section where the original road has been bypassed - and my goodness!   That original road is not much wider than  a farmers cart!  Much of the rest would have been like that in the day!  J.

Edited Sunday at 13:57 by JohnD

[James H]

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Thanks, Chris, found it.  (pages 52-55 of that issue) 

John if you've found it online would you be so kind as to send a link, cheers

[JohnD]

James,

Previous copies of the Courier are on the TSSC Website (Button at top of this page) look for "Courier" in the left hand column of buttons, and then search for the copy of your choice.

I can't post a hyperlink here, it doesn't work that way, but easy enough to follow that trail?

John

[James H]

Thank you yes, not knowing about the Courier was looking online instead... live and learn on here !

Issue 520 

Edited Sunday at 14:00 by James H

[James H]

Great article Chris.

Just afterwards on page 61 I couldn't help but notice this, what an achingly beautiful machine, I realise its not a 6 but surely worth re-sharing from the Courier, the lengths people go to in the name of motorsport !

For anyone interested found this info on it online, for those unaware turns out its actually a successful period racer and 1 of only 4 made with replicas in existence too : 

In 1960 club racer Neil Dangerfield bought Sid Hurrell’s Triumph TR3A with the registration SAH 137 for road and track use. After a couple of successful racing seasons, Dangerfield bought a brand new TR4 from Hurrell’s SAH tuning concern in 1962 and transferred the registration to the new car.

Sid Hurrell prepared the TR4 for racing and Dangerfield raced it at English circuits in 1962/63. He also drove it to Monza for the 3-hour GP support race in 1963, finished 2nd in class and drove it home again.

By the end of 1963, Chris Lawrence (of Morgan fame) had taken over the preparation of the car. A discussion between Chris, John Sprinzel and Neil Dangerfield led to the decision to remove the old TR4 body and replace it with a new curvaceous, low drag one fashioned from aluminium by Williams and Pritchard. The ‘new’ car was built up by Chris Lawrence.

‘SLR’ stood for Sprinzel LawrenceTune Racing and the car was exhibited at the Racing Car Show at Olympia in January 1964. Three further examples were subsequently built on Morgan chassis, all complying with the period Group 3 Appendix J category.

Neil and occasionally Chris Lawrence raced the car in 1964 and 1965 at various circuits including Goodwood, Spa Francorchamps and Silverstone.

The current owner is Tony Hall-Griffin. He acquired the car in 1986 in fairly poor condition and restored it with the help of Ken Heywood. They entered in the inaugural Goodwood Revival meeting in 1998 where the car was invited to take part in the “Dream Grid” parade, driven by Neil Dangerfield. The car is seen here at the 2023 Motor Racing Legends race meeting on the Silverstone GP circuit, driven by Richard Hall-Griffin.

 

Edited Sunday at 16:41 by James H