Alan Hunt Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 Hi all, I have read all of the forum posts about the rear suspension of the mk2 Vitesse. ( even other club forums) but I gather everything together and find myself none the wiser. I am practical to an extent but not a motor mechanic. I think that my lever arm dampers are no good so I would like to change to shock absorbers. My Haynes manual doesn’t even show the lever arm damper on the mk2 so my question is, do I completely remove the damper and links to make room for the shocks and do I need the extension bracket to the chassis. I have looked at the mk2 at Tssc and that is completely different but the shock absorber bolts on to existing fixed bracket. I don’t want the adjustable shocks because the car doesn’t get enough use but at the same time it wants to be about right.Some posts have mentioned welding bits on or using mini shocks or doing something different and I would just like a clear simple answer.( if there is one) . I have photos of my car, the club car and the manual and also rimmer. Sorry for the rambling. Hope you can help. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 41 minutes ago, Alan Hunt said: Hi all, I have read all of the forum posts about the rear suspension of the mk2 Vitesse. ( even other club forums) but I gather everything together and find myself none the wiser. I am practical to an extent but not a motor mechanic. I think that my lever arm dampers are no good so I would like to change to shock absorbers. My Haynes manual doesn’t even show the lever arm damper on the mk2 so my question is, do I completely remove the damper and links to make room for the shocks and do I need the extension bracket to the chassis. I have looked at the mk2 at Tssc and that is completely different but the shock absorber bolts on to existing fixed bracket. I don’t want the adjustable shocks because the car doesn’t get enough use but at the same time it wants to be about right.Some posts have mentioned welding bits on or using mini shocks or doing something different and I would just like a clear simple answer.( if there is one) . I have photos of my car, the club car and the manual and also rimmer. Sorry for the rambling. Hope you can help. Alan TSSC shop sells the conversion including gaz shocks . These are adjustable and not available as non adjustable . Set to level 2 . That’s what I did https://shop.tssc.org.uk/product/gazrotoconvk-rotoflex-rear-shock-conversion remove the lever arms . The brackets fit between the chassis and the body shell so the chassis bolts need to be loosened . You will also need a spring lifter for replacing the spring again available from the club shop . Use the opportunity to change the rotoflex doughnuts / ujs / wheel bearings if they need changing . There’s plenty of help here if needed Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted July 6 Author Report Share Posted July 6 Thanks for your reply Paul . I will look into the other items although I am not aware of anything else needing attention at this moment. I didn’t realise that I would have to disturb the spring. Thanks. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 I believe the spring can stay in place though you will need a spring lifter to refit Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted July 7 Author Report Share Posted July 7 Thanks again Paul for your help and advice. I have been looking back at one of last October posts whereby someone put a link in for the lever arm dampers and I have discovered that there are a couple of places that recondition them. Depending on the outcome it may be a better option for me, price wise and for the work involved. I know that some people say that they are not as good as shocks but for how little mileage I do, it will still give me a better ride than I am currently getting and it looks an easier option. We will see. Cheers .Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFL Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 Hi Alan TD Fitchett's used to offer exchange re-conditioned Lever Arm Dampers for the Mk2 Vitesse, it might be worth a call - 01952 619585 You may also find you need some new links for the Lever Arm Dampers, these are available from Chic Doig in Scotland as per the link below:- ttps://www.chicdoig.co.uk/car-store/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-MK11-Rotaflex-Rear-Lever-Arm-Shock-Link-Arm-150842-CHIC-DOIG-p421139348 I converted my Vitesse Mk2 to Telescopic adjustable dampers, but if you want to stick with the Lever arm type they work ok and some say give a softer ride than telescopic type dampers Let us know how you get on. Regards Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 Hi Gary, Thanks for your post. I have only just seen it . I am still pondering just what to do (That’s me all round) . There is around 1/2 inch between the bump stop and the lever arm and I have been trying to find out what it should be. Rimmer also do exchange dampers and there is also someone on EBay selling them, but they are expensive but thanks for your alternative. I’m doing nothing until after my holidays so there is still time to change my mind again but looking at the shocks, I would not know what the best options would be. Which ones did you choose and do you think it was better or worse than the dampers. thanks again. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFL Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) On 12/07/2024 at 16:15, Alan Hunt said: Hi Gary, Thanks for your post. I have only just seen it . I am still pondering just what to do (That’s me all round) . There is around 1/2 inch between the bump stop and the lever arm and I have been trying to find out what it should be. Rimmer also do exchange dampers and there is also someone on EBay selling them, but they are expensive but thanks for your alternative. I’m doing nothing until after my holidays so there is still time to change my mind again but looking at the shocks, I would not know what the best options would be. Which ones did you choose and do you think it was better or worse than the dampers. thanks again. Alan. I fitted reconditioned ones off TD Fitchett's when I first restored my old Vitesse, the ride was fine although the mounting bolts did work loose and need a really good tighten up after the initial running in period? After a few years I converted to Koni 80-1717 type Telescopic dampers with the top extension brackets, this required a few modifications but they work very well (Do a search on here on how I converted to them). I've been told by the current owner of my old Vitesse that the car is the best riding Vitesse he's ever owned which is good to know😊 The Lever arm type give a slightly softer ride I reckon, it all depends what you want and what your budget is, it's far cheaper to just get some reconditioned Lever Arm dampers, I reckon it would be £300 to £400 in parts alone these days to convert to Telescopic dampers, half the price for Lever arms. Regards Gary Edited August 5 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 Thanks Gary, Ease of installation is the main reason for staying with the lever arm dampers. Earlier today I changed my mind and decided to fit telescopic shocks but now I am back on the lever arm dampers. I will let you know in a few weeks how the result is on the car handling. Thanks again. Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted August 4 Author Report Share Posted August 4 Hi, just fitted reconditioned lever arm dampers and as yet I’m not sure if they have made any difference. I have recently blamed the state of the roads for the bumpy ride but then decided to look into the suspension. Now I am reading the forums on the leaf spring although I have not noticed any issues with bangs or uneven levels in the car.Maybe it’s just me. Could anyone advise me what the average height of the rear of the car should be. I have 550mm from the floor to the centre of the wheel arch and 18mm clearance between the lever arm and the bump stop. Does this sound about right? Thanks. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 Alan is yout ride bumpy or bouncy? I would say the first is harsh and comes from too stiff a spring or too resistant damping not normally what you get with worn suspension but likely with uprated stuff (shorter springs, adjustable shocks etc). Bouncy is what you get with damping not being sufficient and what I would expect with lever arms that are past their best. Other worn suspension components like bushes and fixings could also give a harsh ride if theres uncontrolled free play but also suspension design has improved a lot since our cars so maybe youre expecting too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted August 4 Author Report Share Posted August 4 Hi Johny. Thanks for your reply. I changed the lever arm dampers because I thought that maybe they were too close to the bump stop. ( Not being a Triumph veteran). So I imagined that an 18mm clearance would not be enough going over bumps. With the reconditioned ones having the same clearance I presumed that was the norm. You are probably right in saying it could be me expecting too much. I would say that the ride was more bumpy rather than bouncy . I take it that the heights and clearances are correct. Thanks again. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 Ah if youre hitting the bump stops that would give a bumpy/harsh ride! With telescopics, and I see no reason why lever arms shouldnt be the same, the rule of thumb is that the car should sit with the damper a 1/3 of the way through its travel so leaving 2/3 to absorb impacts without bottoming out. If your spring is weak or the suspension modified this might not be the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 22 minutes ago, johny said: 22 minutes ago, johny said: If your spring is weak or the suspension modified this might not be the case.. Have you checked that a loweri g block has not been fitted to the diff by a previous owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted August 4 Author Report Share Posted August 4 I can’t tell if a lowering block has been fitted at this stage but I think it’s more likely to be a weak spring. Obviously, I’m not sure if the damper is hitting the bump stop whilst driving but with it being so close I think it must be. Either way, the spring needs a look at. I think it’s a job for someone else. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 A photo of the car would help us judge if its sitting low... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFL Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 (edited) Alan Here's a couple of Pictures of Original Vitesse Press cars showing how the cars should look. You should have very slight positive camber on the wheels at the Rear, like this: \ / The Mk2 Vitesse should ride ok with everything in good order, the Lever arm dampers won't affect the ride height it's the spring that does that. A couple of things that can cause a harsh ride are a worn or broken rear spring or a seized Trunnions/Lower Wishbone bolt. a side on and rear photo of your car will give us some clues Gary Edited August 5 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted August 5 Author Report Share Posted August 5 Sorry, I’ve just seen your posts . There is a side view of the car and the gap between the damper and the bump stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 Oh I see its a lower stop so not to limit compression of the suspension in which case I dont think that is the cause of the bumpiness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 Hmm... Here's another thought. Have you checked that the long bolt through the wishbone trunnions has not seized/rusted in the bushes? If they have, it can cause a bumpy ride as the verticle link won't pivot with the suspension properly. I check mine annually by slackening the long bolt and make sure it moves, then re-torque with the suspension in the normal laden posn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 Are you sure on that Trigolf as I was just discussing this with Dave on another thread and I cant see how the steel sleeves in either normal or rotaflex suspension can seize in their plastic bushes. If they rust theyll just rip the bushes to pieces very rapidly but wont prevent movement of trunnion because the force from the suspension going up and down is far too great. The bolts can and do rust in the sleeves but just slackening them wont prove this as they will still rotate as one with the sleeve so I try tapping the bolt a little length ways and of course if free it should move🤞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFL Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 (edited) 11 hours ago, Alan Hunt said: Sorry, I’ve just seen your posts . There is a side view of the car and the gap between the damper and the bump stop. Alan That all looks about right to me and your wheel is sitting more or less correct in the wheel arch too, with very slight positive camber. Can you describe the ride characteristics in a bit more detail? The Mk2 Vitesse isn't the comfiest of rides compared with modern cars, but should be reasonably smooth and quiet if everything is in good condition and not seized Does the Lever Arm Damper arm rest on the Bump stop when the car is jacked up on the Chassis? As stated by Trigolf, the long wishbone bolt can seize into the trunnion spacers and also into the vertical link as well, in the worst case they need drilling out from the hub carrier/vertical links! It may be worth seeing it it turns and also moves sideways slightly as suggested. Gary Edited August 6 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hunt Posted August 6 Author Report Share Posted August 6 Just taken this from the rear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 1 hour ago, johny said: Are you sure on that Trigolf as I was just discussing this with Dave on another thread and I cant see how the steel sleeves in either normal or rotaflex suspension can seize in their plastic bushes. If they rust theyll just rip the bushes to pieces very rapidly but wont prevent movement of trunnion because the force from the suspension going up and down is far tooohny great. The bolts can and do rust in the sleeves but just slackening them wont prove this as they will still rotate as one with the sleeve so I try tapping the bolt a little length ways and of course if free it should move🤞 Johny, you are correct - I didn't explain myself very well! I have had creaking noises coming from them, cured by stripping them and greasing the bolt and a little on the bushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 9 minutes ago, Alan Hunt said: Just taken this from the rear. Alan, From your pic, allowing for some distortion, the wheels have a slight positive camber. I would consider that stance pretty normal 'unladen'. Can you get one or two people to sit in the car and recheck the stance? If the vert link(s) are moving slightly as necessary, the wheels should move to nearer a vertical posn? As Gary says, the Vit ride can't be compared to a modern car. IIRC, back in the day,one motoring mag review described the ride as slightly 'choppy', attributed to a short wheelbase and stiff separate chassis and heavy engine🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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