Freyasgrandad

Solved it!!!! Well in truth not me but a friend in the trade told me the answer as soon as I mentioned this. The clue should have been the colour, it is the residue left when a chunk of gasket gets dropped into the bowl during a rebuild. At first it gets saturated with fuel and sinks to the bottom but then over a long time the binding resins dissolve until only compressed gasket material remains when the bowl is removed or left without fuel and then you get red powder. Apparently quite frequently found in pre-war carbs.

Hi Dave, My Vitesse/GT6 Manual covers all 2litre Vitesse models and all GT6 variants. Having just rebuilt my original Strombergs on my Mk2 Vitesse I have been studiously reading the relevant pages and have arrived at the following conclusion. There are basically three different variants of the Stromberg 150 fitted to these cars. The 150CD these have a air valve lifter spindle as a choke on each carb linked by a central rod as per the throttle butterflies. The 150CDS these are slightly later and have a fuel enrichment valve fitted to the front carb only with a link pipe taking extra fuel to the rear carb. The 150CDSE these are emission control carbs, the jets are fixed and tuning is by adjusting the needles with a special tool, There is a thermal adjusting unit on each carb and an enrichment arrangement similar to that on the CDS. No doubt there are other variants not shown in my manual as I think there will be at least two more editions after that I have and most of the major parts are common especially on the pre emission carbs Triumph seem to have used a number of different throttle linkages during the cars production. My 1970 Mk2 has a Herald style cable acting on the rear or left side of the rear carb but apparently there were also rod linkages and a cable system to the front carb again on the rear/left of that carb and of course these all used different balance bars. I found Turner Carbs in Stamford an invaluable source of parts and knowledge when doing mine. Steve

Thanks Paul, I will measure them up when next at the garage but think that indicates that my offside item is the original. Wonder where the other one comes from. Interesting that the originals are handed as there only seems to be one part number now, could this be the answer? One over or under size fits all? Steve

It has taken me several months to notice, but for some time I kept feeling that there was something wrong with the fit of my Vitesse's front over riders. The nearside always looked lower than the offside but the offside looked slightly out of line vertically. On Sunday I finally realised that in fact they are not identical, the offside one is about an inch taller and deeper and about 1/2 inch wider than that on the nearside, They both have identical shape and profiles and the mounting bolts line up on both but the offside looks to be on steroids. I can only find one part number for them so I assume that one of mine is either a cheap replica or from another model, is that even possible? Anyone know the answer and which one is correct?

Just wanted to close off on my original post in this thread. So the Strombergs are fully rebuilt with new everything, balanced and tuned and the Vitesse started and ran quite nicely. I checked the timing and found it was pretty good at 13deg BTDC on number one so decided it was time for the last part of my ignition upgrade. Time to ditch the points in favour of a Lumenition Optronic PMA50 set up. First move was to fit the "Power Unit" to the bulkhead above and behind the battery Easier said than done, that's one tough piece of metal, drilling the two holes was easy, but getting the self tappers tightened quite another. Snap On Tee handle screwdriver to the rescue a little more sweat the odd cuss word and bingo securely mounted with earth lead in place. As it was so close at hand I took the power feed from a free terminal on the switched fuse of the fuse box which allowed me to shorten the wire (I hate long wires spooled up and laying around) and fit a standard "Lucar" spade connector. Next task was the coil driver connection, with the MSD disconnected from the distributor and connected this to the Lumenition signal wire. I kept the Lucar female spade terminals on both wires and joined them using a male/male adaptor provided in the Lumenition kit. I then hid all the excess wires and the connection inside a corrugated plastic conduit as this time I wanted to keep both wires at their full length, Final task was to remove the points, condenser and earth wires from the distributor moving plate and replace them with the Lumenition Optronic switch unit and six bladed chopper. I have to say that this was much easier than the older Lumenition kits I have fitted in the past with no need to modify the plate or fit a carrier plate to install the switch and all told it took less than ten minutes to complete, including fitting the three wires into the snap connector and connecting to the power module. The engine fired up first turn and a quick check showed that the timing was a little more advanced than on the points but only by a few degrees which was soon adjusted leading to a slightly slower but steady idle speed. So all good, I now have an electronically triggered, high energy, multiple spark ignition system with the ability to replace or bypass any of the elements in the event of a failure. Plus it looks good under the bonnet.

Hi Pete, thanks for the offer of your scope but I already had one from a friend. So I looked into the tank and no red oxide or rust in there, it actually looks new. No idea at all what that powder was or where it came from but its not there now and the carbs are balanced and tuned so all good. To treat myself I've replaced the points with a Lumenition Optronic set up driving the MSD system. Awesome, I think the spark could jump start a corpse but the timing is so much more accurate now I need to advance it up a little. More to do next weekend. Steve

Tea?? Yuk! Nasty stuff and a waste of good Pochin! On the subject of Aspen fuel, I didn't realise you could get it over here, my gardener in Florida used it in his favourite tool a Four Stroke "Weed Whacker" (a strimmer on steroids) during the off (summer) season and swore by it. But even this fearsome device only had a 3 litre fuel tank so I think using it in a car might be uneconomical. Some years ago my best friend and I tried running out Hill Climb Reynard Formula Toyota on Methanol. Lots of power but a real faf, we had to flush the whole system out with petrol after every meeting and never managed to get it all out. We gave up half way through the year, dropped the CR and went back to petrol. We were running a 1 gallon tank for the methanol and needed four gallons of petrol to flush the system out (badly).

I have just rebuilt the 150 CDS on my Mk2 Vitesse with a rebuild kit and new needles from Turner Carbs in Stamford. Mr Turner provided these needles as they are to cope with fuel containing ethanol and to my mind they appear to me made of or coated with a different material to the originals. Could this be the reason for Rimmers listing two needles but one being NLA? I have to say that initial running indicates that the carbs are working very well now and I would recommend Turner Carbs as he seems very knowledgeable and helpful and is no more expensive that Rimmers or others.

Thanks Mark, Clearly I've been lucky as this one is rot free and has all the mounting studs in place. Plenty of time to get it sand blasted and primed before the respray. Steve

My Mk2 came to me with the original boot lid but no insert panel where the number plate and badges locate. To conceal all the holes I made an insert out of a sheet of aluminium and it looks OK but I after a lot of searching managed to find an original panel on eBay. It looked quite good in the pictures and so I bought it. It arrived today and it is actually really good, all intact and just a little dirty. Thing is it looks to be made of mild steel that is either painted silver grey or possibly galvanised but I have also seen them described as being stainless. My plan is to respray the Vitesse in the spring and I would like to change the black flash and headlight surrounds to Standard Elfin Green to match my Standard 8 (I don't think the black is original anyway) and if I do this would like to paint the insert in the same colour, Obviously if it is painted, no problem but galvanised or stainless will need special primers. I don't want to start scratching/sanding yet as I will be storing it for now. So firstly was there more than one version of this panel and what are they made from? Many thanks.

So both carbs are back on the manifold and the engine starts and runs beautifully although slightly rich as weather and other commitments prevented me from setting the balance and mixture as yet. What I did do was pump some fuel through the lines into a jam jar and got clean petrol with no trace of any odd colour, so I removed both float bowls and found them full of again clean uncontaminated petrol. Whatever my mystery contaminant was it isn't there now, so my last line of attack will be to borrow a bore scope and check the inside of the tank. If that is in good order then I'm afraid this will be another of the Universe's great questions.

All good ideas and today a friend who is a paint sprayer suggested it could be red oxide primer used inside the tank. However this afternoon I stripped the front carb and no residue at all in the bowl, very confusing as it looks as if this carb has not been apart in an even longer time than the back one. It was also missing the same O ring but did have all the gaskets intact. Overall I am leaning towards Red Hermetite as the culprit but they must have used a whole tube of the stuff. Anyway both Strombergs are now fully cleaned and rebuilt so tomorrow and Sunday will be installation and tuning days. Long time since I've had to set up anything other than 45 DCOE Webers so this should be fun,

No gentlemen it is definitely not rust. In a previous life (some 40 years ago) I was a laboratory chemist and I know what raw metallic oxides look like. This was red as is Pillar Box Red not rust brown and was a fine homogeneous powder that dissolved in Xylene. I suspect it is from some sort of additive, although I only use Castrol Valve Master very sparingly, but until I find the same substance in the other carb I won't commit to that. Odd that it dissolved in Xylene but apparently not in petrol and that makes me wonder if it could be some sort of coating applied to protect the bowl in storage. I'll know more tomorrow when I start work on the second carb.

At last I have managed to make a start on the rebuild on the Vitesse's carbs at the weekend. I started with the back carb and began by cleaning it externally before stripping it down. Removing it from the manifold gave me some indication of what I would find inside, no gaskets had been used either side of the insulator just copious amounts of RTV that had spread into the insulator, carb and manifold bores. It was surprising therefore to find that on the outside it was actually quite clean, needing only a quick blast with Xylene based cleaner and a gentle brushing to have it looking respectable. Inside the float chamber was however quite a different story. First of all the float height was miles out, possibly to compensate for the missing O ring in the jet holder perhaps? But most puzzling was the presence of a layer about 1/4" thick of red dust not unlike talcum powder in both feel and appearance. It was easily removed by turning the bowl upside down and then brushing the bottom of the bowl with Xylene. At first I thought this was rust but nothing in the bowl showed any sign of rusting, the fuel pipes are copper, the tank appears to have been replaced and the in-line filter is clean and full of clean fuel. More significantly the mystery powder dissolved completely in the Xylene, turning it slightly pink so not rust then. After a lot of thought the only thing I can think of is that it is the residue from a stabilising fuel additive after the fuel has evaporated, I should perhaps add here that I left the card for a couple of days after I had taken it off the manifold for just that reason. As that carb is now rebuilt with new jet, needle, diaphragm, inlet valve and a full complement of O rings this weekend I shall repeat this procedure with the front one. If I find more red powder I'll photograph and post it. If I don't find any in that carb then the mystery deepens. Any ideas?

Problem solved! Turns out it was the front trim strip at fault in that it was 15mm too long between bend and corner finisher on the offside. Presumably an after market replacement fitted during the rebuild. Cordless grinder to the rescue and along with new clips all round everything fits pretty much as it should again. Thanks for the advice Pete, my finishers are retained by small screws at the minute but I'll rivet or bond them on after the respray next spring.

My Vitesse has either original or after market moulded carpets in good condition but was missing the gearbox cover carpet. I bought a set of stitched carpets off ebay but the tunnel piece didn't even begin to fit properly. I complained and was told "We make these sets for the top restorers and suppliers they are from original templates". I contacted Newton and they supplied me with a moulded tunnel carpet alone. It fitted perfectly and took seconds to install. Quality is always worth the money.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, I have decided to go with the Jigsaw CV conversion and having researched the hub bearing question probably standard bearings in Canley Alloy uprights with AVO shocks all round. Lots to do before that though so will have to wait for next spring.

Rich, if it says LUCAS on the vacuum unit then it is a Lucas dizzy as no elements of the Lucas unit are compatible with the DELCO distributor. Most probably a 22d6 which was factory fit for the Vitesse Mk2 although I think the 2.5 S may have used a 25d6, however most service parts are common between the 22 and 26 units. Steve

To answer John D's posting regarding the MSD fitting. MSD do not recommend retaining points, nor do they recommend after market electronic ignition systems (even their own) as requirements for the fitting of the CDI system, They recommend retaining the condenser, which the MSD unit actually renders obsolete, if using a contact breaker distributor. Like John I favour using an electronic ignition and these are compatible with the MSD and once I have rebuilt my carbs and am satisfied I have everything set up properly I shall be fitting Lumenition Optronic. I don't intend to argue here about the technical issues of multispark systems, my experience with MSD systems both here and in the USA is that they work and provide several benefits to carburettor fed engines. I'd also point out that they have been fitted to NASCAR cars for decades and those Good Ole Boys do not waste a cent.

Decided I would put my money where my mouth is and bought an MSD 6A CDI unit and matching "Blaster" coil off ebay. I fitted it last weekend, about a three hour job if you want to run all the cables neatly in the factory cable clips. MSD 6 series boxes are quite big and the only place with room on the Vitesse is between the battery and the A post support, the good news about this is that it is close to the fuse box and the earth strap location so the permanent power and earth wires can be kept short and run in a single loom. The unit also requires an ignition switched positive supply to arm and disarm it, I could have split this wire out of the units loom and run it to the switched terminals on the fuse box but it comes fitted with a male spade connector to connect to the original coil supply wire and I chose to use this and run this lead and the coil feed and negative wires together up to the coil. The coil wires are attached to the coil posts with self locking nuts but have a double snap connector at the coil end and by fitting the original spade terminals to the coil reverting to standard ignition is achieved in a matter of seconds. The signal input wire simply runs to the points spade terminal on the distributor and again can have a male spade terminal to attach to the original wire at the coil end for ease of restoration. I chose to split this wire out of the loom and run it to the distributor by the shortest route. I also used a female connector and removed the original lead for safe keeping in the tool kit in case I ever need to revert. MSD units can be triggered by conventional contact breaker points, OE electronic ignition and after market electronic ignitions mostly without any additional parts and also has a tachometer output for coil pulse reading tachs. If as I did you chose to use your points as a trigger you can remove the condenser as the voltage across the points is in micro volts but MSD recommend retaining it just in case you need to change back on the roadside. Points gap of 0.015" and static timing of 13 degrees BTDC are retained but spark plug gap is suggested to be 0.050" to 0.060" on compression ratios below 10.5 to 1. I set mine at 0.050. One essential alteration is that plug leads must be two or three core design for the system to work without the EMP stopping the unit and your ICE from working. So what does it do? Well several things, firstly it delivers a much (+80%) more powerful spark at all engine speeds and loads but also below 3000 RPM it will deliver a series of multiple sparks at each plug across a 20 degree arc of distributor rotation. Obviously the number of sparks decreases with RPM as the time for the dizzy to turn through that arc gets shorter. The unit also varies dwell angle and switches on with the first points signal to protect the coil from over heating. The reality of this system is that what it effectively delivers is not a number of individual sparks ie. # # # # # but one long powerful spark as in ###### at a time, at low engine speeds and or small throttle openings, when combustion may not be optimum due to weak or rich mixtures. It is therefore particularly suited to tuned multiple carb set ups. Does it work? Well my Strombergs need a rebuild and with new points and condenser and Powerspark leads would idle, roughly, at 800 RPM. First shot with the MSD and tick over rose to 1200, I turned the throttle stops back and she now idles at 750 RPM as smooth as silk. No flat spots through the range, no hesitations and nice brown plugs. Yes I think it works and it looks nice under the bonnet.

So I finally got round to measure things up last weekend. Turns out that the chrome strips are both the same length and both bonnet side panels are also equal so the problem would seem to be the off side corner trim which although appearing to be correctly located on the bonnet is actually too far out and back by about 1cm. Next task will be to figure out why/how this has come about and how to fix it.

Thanks Pete, I have been running the Great Eastern Run today but next weekend I am going to try taking the shorter nearside trim off and comparing it to the offside. We'll see what that shows. Interesting about the 13/60 part numbers and it does make me wonder. Steve

Are there a variety of different lengths available for the chrome strips along the sides of the Vitesse bonnet? I adjusted the corner finishers that had not been correctly re-fitted after a respray and have since noticed that the offside trim is about 15mm longer than that on the nearside even though both are fully located in the finisher. I haven't measured the bonnet but it appears to be the cars original unit and the wing sections seem to have had arch repair sections fitted rather than having been replaced. I actually wonder if the trims might be handed and mine have been swapped over in error. Any ideas? I should add that the corner finishers are correctly seated on the bonnet now and the bonnet has no evidence of ever being damaged.

If anyone is interested Hawk do make a "Ferro-Carbon" pad set for the Type 16 Caliper, Listed as a Nissan part I think it is for the rear brakes on the 240Z in SAE specification and therefore may have Imperial size pin slots. Slightly cheaper than the Mintex as well. Sorry no asbestos in them though.

Does anyone know the Lockheed AP part number for the Ford pads referred to above? I suspect that there will be a carbon-metallic pad set to match these and if you think M1144 is good carbon-metallics will scare you, or rather who ever is behind you.