johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 key doesnt need to come out as sleeve and oil flinger should slide over it. They can be sticky so try gently with a thin blade screw driver between the flinger and sleeve all the way round... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 When ready and engine at TDC you need to check cam is at its rocking point again because those lines could have been scribed in the wrong place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 Take a brass drift and hammer on one end of the woodruff key. They’re half moon shaped so that’ll push one end down and the other up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 Enough grazed knuckles for today. I'm happy with the progress I've made. If there's a special trick to removing the Woodruff key, please let me know. Does it just slide forwards towards the front of the car, or does it also need to be lifted at the same time, or some other secret maneuver? I'll let it soak in WD40 and try again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 Just now, nicrguy1966 said: Enough grazed knuckles for today. I'm happy with the progress I've made. If there's a special trick to removing the Woodruff key, please let me know. Does it just slide forwards towards the front of the car, or does it also need to be lifted at the same time, or some other secret maneuver? I'll let it soak in WD40 and try again tomorrow. See one post above I guess I must’ve hit send while you were still typing yourself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, johny said: When ready and engine at TDC you need to check cam is at its rocking point again because those lines could have been scribed in the wrong place.... That's exactly why I'm taking it all apart! From the rocking point, I'm fairly sure the cam timing is wrong, but the marks day it's correct, so I'll do another rocking point test and see where the lines are then (I've never seen the lines until this morning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Josef said: Take a brass drift and hammer on one end of the woodruff key. They’re half moon shaped so that’ll push one end down and the other up. It would have been nice if the Haynes manual had mentioned that! I've packed up for today, but something to try tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 you cant remove the key with the sleeve in place and anyway as I say you dont need to. Beware they are pretty soft and can get mangled quite easily.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 While resting you can check the chain tensioner and seal in the cover👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglet1 Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, nicrguy1966 said: It sounded crazy, but I tried it, and it worked! (After fixing the other end of the ring spanner to the chassis with cable ties just in case it decided to fly into the bonnet or windscreen!) The crank pulley bolt is off! Any other steps that are likely to be this difficult? Brilliant! Glad to have been helpful. Will be interesting to know the final outcome which I’ve been following for a while.👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, johny said: While resting you can check the chain tensioner and seal in the cover👍 I've bought a new seal and gasket. The tensioner looks as good as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, johny said: you cant remove the key with the sleeve in place and anyway as I say you dont need to. Beware they are pretty soft and can get mangled quite easily.... Thanks. I missed that when reading the manual! That's probably why I was having trouble! Edited October 14, 2023 by nicrguy1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 Yes most stuff is in the manual but well hidden! Anyway progressing nicely and while the wd40 is hopefully freeing it off you can inspect the surface of the sleeve. It shouldnt have any groove where the seal runs but they are available new or you can even use it the other way round - indeed as yours is installed incorrectly it could be for exactly that reason! Also you might as well check you have the correct shims behind the crank sprocket using a straight edge across both sprockets and also measure the chain wear as per the manual.... Oh and another thing is to check the tightness of any bolts you can get to while under the cover👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 8 hours ago, johny said: This is to correct the valve timing which if wrong should explain why the ignition has to be set so advanced to run normally... Sigh. All that work. I'm sure that I suggested ELoO to check the timing was correct! Only the rocker cover needs to come off to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 yes checked John, read the thread as it looks to be out which is why all this work is going on👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 Shim is off! (and I checked, the Haynes manual didn't say anything about taking it off it before removing the Woodruff key. Grrrr). I also realised that if I remove the Woodruff key, I'll have no way of turning the engine to do the rocket balance point measurement. The marks might be a tad off now I can see all 3 (crank, engine and cam), but nothing like the 6 degrees I think I found before taking everything apart. Maybe 1/4 tooth? Now to repeat the rocker measurement while I can see the marks to see if they are in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 Ignore the marks as if theyre the originals and the valve timings wrong it would have to be one complete tooth out which is obviously not the case. Then if theyve been scribed on new sprockets they'll line up perfectly but the valve timing is wrong (note: the chain does stretch in use so not usual to find a little misalignment)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) This is what the cam gear looks like when I've found the balance point. I'm thinking the cam timing mark is half a tooth from where it should be. So the next step is to remove the chain and set the cam to this position when the crank gear is at TDC? Am I understanding the process correctly? I'll wait for some replies before proceeding as this is the most important step. Edited October 15, 2023 by nicrguy1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 eed to get the cam lobes in balance and exactly mid point highest point best use a dial indicator to get the centre of the cam ramp pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 And I take it youre no longer on TDC either? So yes next step is undo cam sprocket and remove it so that crank can be turned to TDC. As it looks like an error of half a tooth you then have to rotate the sprocket 90º before bolting it back on through the second set of holes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Pete Lewis said: eed to get the cam lobes in balance and exactly mid point highest point best use a dial indicator to get the centre of the cam ramp pete If I had one, I would! I'm following the workshop manual method of opening up the gaps on rockers 1 and 2 (when valves 12 and 11 are fully open), then setting the cam so both 1 & 2 have the same gap (3 thou in my case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, johny said: And I take it youre no longer on TDC either? So yes next step is undo cam sprocket and remove it so that crank can be turned to TDC. As it looks like an error of half a tooth you then have to rotate the sprocket 90º before bolting it back on through the second set of holes.... The chain is still on, so no, the crank isn't at TDC now the cam is at the balance point. Now I'm wishing I'd loosened the cam sprocket before getting to this delicate point! I guess I'll be finding the balance point again as the cam is bound to move when I'm removing the bolts. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Edited October 15, 2023 by nicrguy1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 Dont worry once the sprocket is the new position youll be checking, rotating and rechecking several times😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 One thing, did you open up both 1 and 2 tappet gaps to 40 thou as recommended in the manual? Its just that the 3 thou youre measuring on balance point is quite tight so a measuring error of 1 thou in 3 is a lot more than 1 thou in say 10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, johny said: One thing, did you open up both 1 and 2 tappet gaps to 40 thou as recommended in the manual? Its just that the 3 thou youre measuring on balance point is quite tight so a measuring error of 1 thou in 3 is a lot more than 1 thou in say 10... Yes I opened them to 40 as described in the WSM. What gap would you expect to see at the balance point? Sunday lunch is calling, and there will be wine, so although I'm happy to carry on chatting, I'll not be doing any more work on the car today. Edited October 15, 2023 by nicrguy1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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