James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 13 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: you could turn the ring with your fingers Crikey, was that just rotten luck or is it that common an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 4 minutes ago, James H said: Yes thats what I meant, thinking it was fairly straightforward to just remove the pulley and check but maybe they arn't manufactured with such precision so the tools John mentions are indeed the only way I would give you an indication if the timing marks are miles off but the pulley bolt is pretty tight and space pretty limited for its removal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 On 30/09/2024 at 17:09, Iain T said: I've got it...... gravity is greater in France 😁 Iain, just briefly off topic I checked while out that with the T9 in 5th I'm doing 90kph/56mph at 3000rpm and 100kph/62mph at 3500rpm, now I know the po has been inside the box would that suggest short gearing or does it match yours ? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) That's how I lined up the three pullies above, and you can see how much they deviate. I didn't include the "60 degrees out" one as the TDC mark would have been out of shot! As Pete says, the best way to see if the inertia ring has shifted in on the car. Set to TDC, firing stroke, on No.1, and look at the pulley. But that rubber ring may not be working as a damper while it still holds onto the metal. If it has stiffened and lost viscosity, then it can't suppress certain frequencies> All these dampers correctly indicated TDC, but as this shows, dampers 2 and 3 allow significantly more vibration between 5 and 10 kHz, and at 15 to 20kHz. AFAIK, I am the only person outside a manufacturer, who can perform this test. Glad to do it for anyone! John PS. There is another possibility! Your thread is about strobe timing. My strobe has an adjust that lets you pre-set the advance (or delay) you want. You then line up the marks - very useful on some cars eg late Spitfires that don't have the degree markings, just TDC and a pointer. Problem is, if you pre-set it and then adjust you timing to so much advance on the pulley, that is added to the preset! Double advance! Check how your strobe should be used! But don't ask me how I know this! J. Edited October 4 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) I have an E7HD 2.8 sporting close ratio box with heavy duty bearings and long input rebuilt by BGH Geartech with their shortened cast backend ie no welding. The ratios are 2.66, 1.75, 1.26, 1.0 and 0.82. the big difference between my ratios and say 1.6 litre is the front three ratios. Mine are longer so you don't have to change up from first at 15mph! Fourth and fifth are I believe the same whatever spec. My Speedo says around 20 to 21 mph/1000 revs which is about the same as a Triumph box with overdrive. Your final drive ratio is odd. BGH and Chris the main guy are masters of the T9 and very helpful and always open for a chat. Iain Edited October 4 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 2 minutes ago, Iain T said: I have an E7HD 2.8 sporting close ratio box with heavy duty bearings and long input rebuilt by BGH Geartech with their shortened cast backend ie no welding. The ratios are 2.66, 1.75, 1.26, 1.0 and 0.82. the big difference between my ratios and say 1.6 litre is the front three ratios. Mine are longer so you don't have to change up from first at 15mph! Fourth and fifth are I believe the same whatever spec. My Speedo says around 20 to 21 mph/1000 revs which is about the same as a Triumph box with overdrive. Iain Iain, much appreciated, thanks. Ok so if and when I drop the box I'll start a new thread if things get complicated and look you up ! Lacking any documentation I have no idea what ratios I'm running but I do indeed have to change up from first at 15mph so clearly things don't match yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 17 minutes ago, JohnD said: AFAIK, I am the only person outside a manufacturer, who can perform this test. Glad to do it for anyone! John PS. There is another possibility! Your thread is about strobe timing. My strobe has an adjust that lets you pre-set the advance (or delay) you want. You then line up the marks - very useful on some cars eg late Spitfires that don't have the degree markings, just TDC and a pointer. Problem is, if you pre-set it and then adjust you timing to so much advance on the pulley, that is added to the preset! Double advance! Check how your strobe should be used! But don't ask me how I know this! J. John, impressive stuff ! You may well still be right about this in my case so I've gone ahead and ordered the piston stop, will report back... Mines a basic strobe but will check the pulley first and go from there, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 James it could be that you still have the original 4.11 ratio differential fitted as was correct for a 1600 while the 2L went to 3.89. A look at it and its serial number should show which it is? Some people have then even changed the latter diff for a Spitfire 1500 unit of 3.63... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 degraded and loose damper rings on the 6 pot are very common even heard of them being repositioned and pinned in place ,no idea how that survives . Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, James H said: Lacking any documentation I have no idea what ratios I'm running but I do indeed have to change up from first at 15mph so clearly things don't match yours... That sounds like my box before I took it to BGH, not ideal. With the longer first and other ratios it matches the 6 pot very well. Talking to Chris I think he will do a 0.8 fifth but I took his advice as his wife has a Vitesse! At first a bit notchy on second but then it is a T9 but once run in and especially when warmed up a real dream to use. I also had BGH make me a shortened gear shift for those quick changes. Iain Edited October 4 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 1 minute ago, johny said: James it could be that you still have the original 4.11 ratio differential fitted as was correct for a 1600 while the 2L went to 3.89. A look at it and its serial number should show which it is? Some people have then even changed the latter diff for a Spitfire 1500 unit of 3.63... Yes I was aware of the possible diff variations, meant to verify in the past and completely forgot, will look for the serial... Also thanks to Pete suggesting I check for a drop plate re the ride height I discovered the 4 x drivers side U/joint drive shaft bolts wobbling loose which I confess I thought was the diff going hence not thinking to look for loose bolts, at least I now know the diffs in good nik whatever it is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 4 minutes ago, johny said: the original 4.11 ratio differential fitted as was correct for a 1600 while the 2L went to 3.89. You could be right. It would explain the 5th gear speed difference as I can't find any T9s that aren't 0.82 ratio. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 Final drive ratio - the diff ratio - may be found by: Take off the gearbox cover, station an assistant in a front seat. On the level, mark the tyre where it touches the ground. Push the car, fowards or back, until the tyre mark is next to the ground. Meanwhile, assistant counts the prop shaft rotations. Just over 4 = 4.11. A bit under 4 = 3.89. A bit over three and a half = 3.63. Voila! You might be able to work out gears too this way. Car in gear, plugs out, push the car one wheel revolution. Might be easier with the rear on axle stands. Of course the really canny owner is the one who sits in the car, counting, while the serfs push the car! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) James FYI http://www.bghgeartech.co.uk/html/5_speed.html Should be good for 280bhp but the Triumph 6 pot isn't! Iain Edited October 4 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 and to check the speedo TPM mark tyre and road remove speedo cable and attack small card needle push car exactly 52.8 ft count the turns of the needle x100 gives you the TPM as printed on the speedo face or the TPM you need to get accurate speed readings . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 14 hours ago, JohnD said: You might be able to work out gears too this way. Car in gear, plugs out, push the car one wheel revolution. John, I'll give it a shot, alas by my lonesome... Piston stop arrives today so will do that too, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: and to check the speedo TPM Pete you've reminded me I need Iains ( if you're listening Iain ) feedback re the routing of his speedo cable from the T9, mine has long given up ( presumably too contorted ) so I'm using GPS readings for speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 12 minutes ago, James H said: Piston stop arrives today s please do not forget to remove it before you do any cranking or kaboom!!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 depending on the day its not beyond my abilities to do exactly that, will keep it in mind Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: push car exactly 52.8 ft What? That's nearly ... sixty feet! Clearly you do have a team of serfs, Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) 53 minutes ago, James H said: Pete you've reminded me I need Iains ( if you're listening Iain ) feedback re the routing of his speedo cable from the T9, mine has long given up ( presumably too contorted ) so I'm using GPS readings for speed. James , I fitted a T9 last year, and wrote it up on Sideways. See https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9855-fitting-the-ford-t9-gearbox/#comment-138717 As shown, I had to take a bite out of the chassis rail, to make room for the right angle connector. That was exactly the same as the Triumph O/drive one, adapted for the output from the Ford gearbox and supplied by Speedy Cables. John Edited October 5 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JohnD said: As shown, I had to take a bite out of the chassis rail. Yes I did the same but still failed on me, maybe heat related then... many thanks, will have a look at the link making Iain in one foul swoop all but redundant 😉 👍 Edited October 5 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) 51 minutes ago, JohnD said: I fitted a T9 last year, and wrote it up on Sideways. See https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9855-fitting-the-ford-t9-gearbox/#comment-138717 Incredibly useful John, a blessing that people can be so generous with their time ! I see you had Nick Jone's input, another real go to guy I understand. Dare I ask how much that "right-angle" from SpeedyCables cost ? You can describe it in words if you prefer 😉 Here are some old photos of what I've bought into prior to me cutting out and fitting the speedo cable : ( As an ungaraged daily, one thing I've done is to remove all floor insulation and cut the seat rail outlines out of the carpets so the rails stay in, the seats slide off and the carpet lifts off over so in a matter of seconds everything can be removed, works like a charm and no moisture eludes me ) : Edited October 5 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) Sorry I'm decorating today, I've just seen this on my coffee break. I bought my angle drive from below. I had a 1:1 ratio but with 175/70 tyres I should have ordered a 0.9:1 as the speedo reads 10% slower than actual. I didn't have to alter the chassis. https://www.speedograph-richfield.com/shop/angle-drives/rgb1030 Iain...do I still have a job or can I collect my P45 Edited October 5 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 1 minute ago, Iain T said: Sorry I'm decorating today, I've just seen this on my coffee break. I bought my angle drive from below. I had a 1:1 ratio but with 175/70 tyres I should have ordered a 0.9:1 as the speedo reads 10% slower than actual. https://www.speedograph-richfield.com/shop/angle-drives/rgb1030 Cheers Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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