Dizzy/Oil Pump Drive Shaft Length - Vit 2L

[Steve Brown]

Hi

I have a problem with my Vitesse 2litre engine and need to know what the length of the dizzy/oil pump drive shaft should be from the gear to the end of the shaft

 

The engine was rebuilt by a less than reputable (it turns out) company a while ago, came to fire it up a week or so ago and had no oil pressure. [obviously I won't mention their name here but as I have a CCJ against them already I guess they won't be too helpful if I ask them]

 

Swapped out the oil pump but to no avail, that was a fun job with the engine in situ.......

I've now measured the length of drive shaft required to reach the top of the oil pump drive  and discovered it's approx 5mm greater than the dizzy/oil pump drive shaft that was fitted to the engine post rebuild.

 

I suspect they've put the wrong drive shaft and gear into the engine but as I have no original part to check against I can't be 100% sure and can't seem to find any dimension info on the web. Rimmers and Canleys are out if stock so can't get any detail from them either

 

I'll happily order a replacement part or try and source one from somewhere if it resolves the problem but don't want to waste any more time searching if I have the correct part

 

If anyone can help or advise I'd be most grateful

 

Thanks

[Pete Lewis]

The 6cyl pump is pretty std across the range, there are early and late but they are interchangable

to have a short shaft made me think can a 4cyl be fitted in bodge mode

 

Are you sure something is not stopping the skew gear from seating

 

yes getting the sump off a 6 is a challenge of up down in out wiggle woggle

angle and dangle

 

all very odd and unfortunate

 

pete

[Ben Caswell]

Not sure if this will help! I have two old oil pumps one from a Mk1 6cyl and the other from a 1500 4cyl but not sure which is which??

 

With the inner rota installed in the body of the pump the protruding shaft is 120mm on one and 92mm on the other. From tip of shaft to top of pump body.

 

However the longer one has a female slot to engage with the drive and the shorter one has a male blade. So one assumes the drive gears must also be different.

[Steve Brown]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for the replies, to clarify

•   I have swapped out the old oil pump for a brand new alloy higher capacity unit from Rimmers (the old unit shaft was slightly shorter so this one is at least as long as the original)

•   After priming the pump it works if turned manually but not with the distributor drive gear in place

•   The drive gear fits in the recess and sits on the bush below, the distributor pedestal then fits nicely on top (with end float shims of course)

•   I've measured the drive gear and the distance to the oil pump shaft and there is a 5mm difference which explains why it won't pump any oil

•   The drive gearing appears to be correct as it turns at half rate to the engine as per 6 cylinder

To explain I've created a couple of graphics as below

 

So I just need to know

•   If I have the correct drive shaft or if I need to search out a correctly sized one from somewhere

•   If anyone has a correct spare unit that they want to sell I'll happily take it off your hands

•   Or if there is another issue that I haven't discovered that will rectify my problem

 

 

Thanks again

[Pete Lewis]

is the top bush fully seated  ??   is the top flange flush with the top of its bore ??

 

 

something daft must be lurking here ,  is the pump the orig from before the rebuild or a replacement , like new to go with the new rebuild. ??

 

sorry not much help

 

there are 3  versions of  6 cyl   oil pump rod bush  

 

early mk1  131787

late             137978

 

Mk2 >        149776

 

heck knows what the differences are ,   did this bush get changed ???

[dougbgt6]

I notice there are two different distributor to oil pump bushes, one for Mk1s and one for Mk2s. Is yours the right one?

 

Oh! Pete just said that.

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Pete, Doug,

 

I think the bush is the original, unfortunately I didn't do the engine refurb, although I now wish I had - thank you less-than-reputable engineering company with the nice website.......

 

The current bush shows some signs of scoring/wear from where the drive gear has sat on it, the bush stands proud by a mm or so and nothing that would give me the 5mm extra I think I need.

 

Knowing that, I'm also reasonably content that the top area is correct as the pedestal sits nicely on top and the gear end float is as described in the workshop manuals

 

Now I suspect they've thrown some random 6cyl gear and shaft in when the engine was reassembled. Maybe from the Mk1 variants, I guess it possibly makes sense that there may be differing drive shaft lengths if there are different bushes?

 

Looking at the parts lists I need 126786, there's no markings on the current item so it's hard to confirm I have the correct one

 

Oil pump is brand new

[Pete Lewis]

As far as I recall the later pump is fully interchagable the only constraint is the access through the

splash net so this needs modifying or removing to fit a late pump on a early engine as tye strainer and its angle are very diferent, have never come across shaft legth problems

I did this on my 64 Vit6 without any shaft issues

 

think we are all looking forward to a solution here

 

how does you shaft compare to the lengths Ben has supplied?

 

pete

[Steve Brown]

Well I now have the answer to my question, courtesy of me tracking down a 2 litre Mk2 distributor drive shaft and it arriving in the post today - 40mm!! not the 35mm that the dodgy engine refurb idiots left in there for me to seize the engine with.

 

So, I've fitted the new drive shaft, set up the static timing for the nth time this month - I reckon I could now do static timing blindfold - primed the oil pump, started the engine and straight up to 75psi in seconds - Magic, just like they're supposed to do.

 

Photo below showing the drive shaft that was fitted during the refurb and my replacement item.

 

So the question is what engine is the short one from?

 

Oh, and I wonder if the idiots have tried to fit a long one onto a different engine and had to work out why it won't fit

 

[Pete Lewis]

I wonder if its from a 4 pot,

 

what a cock up, unbelieveable mistake to make makes you wonder what standard the rest of the work

was ,

 

if you give some dimensions someone will have something in the cupboard to compare amd identify

 

pete

[Steve Brown]

Hi Pete,

 

The drive gear head is identical on both units, I believe it is from a 6 cylinder as it rotates 2:1, 2 turns of the engine to 1 turn of the distributor

 

The correct drive shaft is 40mm long

The unit fitted post refurb is 35mm long

 

I have uncovered a few other issues with the standard of the work on both the engine and the chassis, the company involved seem to be gaining a reputation for less than reputable behaviour and service. There are others with similar issues coming to light, shame the Google reviews weren't there back in 2014 before I took my car to an engineering firm in Kent to be butchered

 

If anyone is thinking of using an Engineering company in that area it May be worth checking with me and Google first

[Pete Lewis]

Its the cam drive gears that give the 2 :1 the skewgear driving the dizzy shaft is normally 1 :1

 

as a std. dizzy and cam must rotate at the same rate no matter how any pistons

 

we need to identify by its length ,

 

whos got a cupboard full of mix and match to thin down the guesswork

 

we had a tripmround ivor searles and they record everything log it and do a full running performance check , everything documented , better than some manufacurers assy lines.

clean and impressive set up, but does have a cost

 

pete

 

 

 

pete