chrishawley

Here's some pictures of what HS4s are supposed to look like (on a Spit 1500). There should be two linkages between F and R carbs. Does that give a clue?

I've contemplated you photos and have some suggestions. But I know how dispiriting it can be to have others picking holes in one's efforts during the learning process. Within the limits of the resolution of the photos I can see a) burn back, b) lack of penetration and c) severe porosity in places. For c (porosity): assuming that the gas flow is good (say 8 - 10 lpm) a common cause is detritus on the reverse of the work area (rust, paint, underseal, wax). Ideally the reverse of the work needs to be pristine clean as the facing side. Not always achievable, but should be aimed for. Also, fresh mild steel (or CR4 say) may be coated in various ways for atmospheric protection which means it does not accept the 'strike' of the weld well. Linish everything. Regarding a and b. Critical is having good sight of the weld bead as it is in action. One should be able to see the fine detail of the tip of the MIG wire as it goes about its job. I wear varifocals day to day but need special 6 dioptre specs so I can weld up close at about 9 inches. This means I can see the minutiae of the hot spot rather than 'point and hope'. And not having the auto dimming on the mask too dark so that one can't see. The lowest setting ('9') is often correct for lightweight work. Next is torch control. The natural tendency is to try and control the torch position with a firm grip of the right hand (for the right handed). But this leads to intentional tremor and poor control (wander) of the hot spot. The torch should be lightly balanced in the right hand and position control provide by gripping the shroud of the torch with the left hand. Much the same as a snooker cue. The left hand needs to be firmly planted to give a decisive position. Related to this is 'kick back'. As the MIG wire hits the work it tends to push to torch backwards toward the operator if the torch isn't firmly controlled - and this may result is getting a superficial tack of weld which doesn't penetrate. Sometimes one needs to mentally push the torch into weld to counteract this tendency. Also wire speed to consider. If the wire speed is too slow the weld will be silent (and result is tabs of poor penetration weld). Too fast and the torch will kick back sharply and tend to put a great blob of ineffective weld on the surface of the work. The correct in between is where the weld makes a distinct 'bacon and eggs' sizzle - exactly that. Frequently I will attach a dummy piece of metal adjacent to the work area (of similar thickness to the work) to check good sizzle before starting the work in earnest. Trouble is that many MIG sets have appalling calibration on the wire speed control and minute adjustment of the knob is required to get on the sizzle spot. On my SIF '5' is much too little (for power = 1) and '6' way over the top and correct is a gnats worth of adjustment in the middle. Onwards and upwards! It comes with patience and rehearsal. If I get a chance later this week I see if I can find some photos to illustrate some of my suggestions above.

Ok. i'll try dropping the rears. I'm on standard 4.5Js. But my spitfire is best at 24f22r so I can see the logic. Nope, no spoiler. GT6 is a really early Mk3 and I'm rather reluctant to do anything which subtracts from the authentic appearance (outwardly at least). But I would consider an undertray if there were some sort of tried and tested design.

Yup, adjusted front toe in when changing the caster. Tyre pressures approx 26f 28r (but none of my TGPs agree with each other!). Tried pushing the pressures up but that led to marked skittishness. So, one more round of measurement and then perhaps leave it alone for a few hundred miles; the car is still pretty fresh on it wheels and definitely settling/softening as miles accumulate. On the first few test drives it was absolutely appalling - boneshaker would be an understatement. And I still have a very thick lowering block on the rear spring which was required to get the ride height down to something normalish. But I suppose that with the passage of miles that will need to be changed for a skinny block or none at all. And thanks for all the comments and advice without which it would have been creeks and no paddles.

Just wondered if you'd sorted this. Assuming the paint in the affected areas is sound and of adequate depth this sort of 'cleaning up' is what bodyshops do routinely at the polishing stage. So most likely any decent bodyshop will oblige with a 'flat and polish'. But it's laboursome work, half a day at least, so expect £100 - £200. But if the car wasn't flatted, mopped and polished after spraying then it could be worth having all the car done - really does make a difference. Problem is finding the 'decent' refinisher. The good guys, who are mostly old skool, english and self-employed, don't need to advertise so can be hard to find. But if you can find a local paint factor they'll often have an pin board with the cards of the local chaps.

Thanks for all the comments above. Here's the progress (inviting further comment): • Pushing the caster up by one shim each side produced a definite improvement in stability a 60 - 70 mph. Nothing measured, just empirical. Adding another (now f1r3 each side) made no additional difference. Still not 100% right, but definite improvement. • Then replaced 7/8ths anti roll bar with 11/16th (and soft rubber bushes, not polybush). Never done a back-to-back test of different ARBs before and the contrast was marked. Whole front end softer and more 'feeable', less harsh over rough surfaces, cornering less precise and go-kart-ish (but absolutely fine) and a further improvement in high speed stability and even if still not 100% at least one can get some feel for what the wheels are doing. So it's within a gnats of where i think it should be. Having messed with everything experimentally I suppose I should go over all the measurements again in laden condition. But are there further possibilities to optimise the situation? I'm on fairly fresh Toyos 155/80/13 and wonder if there's anything to be gained by going 'upmarket' with the tyres? There was also a suggestion of using an undertray to control aeodynamic lift - is this a realistic option and how would one do it? Plus I'm still open to suggestions that help teh steering be as good as it cab be. Cheers C

Yup, the cigarette lighter should have a permanent (fused, unswitched) live. The illumination light for the CL is on the same circuit as the instrument illumination lights so is fused and switched (via the master light switch and only comes on when the sidelights are on). So having the CL illumination always on is not right. Could be that the two wires have been transposed.

Yet more hand holding required. I'm afraid. Let's make sure I've understood the formula for calculating caster correctly. If the above is a tolerable approximation across equal and narrow values, then; If one turns the wheels (I have turntables) from 20 degrees out to 20 degrees in then that's T2 - T1 = 20 -(-20) i,e 40 degrees. Similarly if C1 is 2 degrees positive and C2 is 3 degrees negative (hypothetically) then that's 2 - (-3) = 5 and NOT 2 - 3 = I degree. Right? Wrong?

Oops - forgot to order any bushes and clamps. Doh! So I'll increase the caster one more step and see what that's like. Then try the skinny ARB. Further pondering is telling me the ARB is more of an issue that I originally supposed. Puts me in mind of a XJ6 I had: Even the most minimal mods (e.g. hard bushes, slightly firm shocks) would not alter any dimensions at all but absolutely wreck the feel. I never had a small chassis Triumph as problematic as this one for getting susp/steering right. But then this one is VERY heavily restored. I'm getting a feeling that although 'by the book' geometry provides a sound datum it's not the whole story and some judicious experimentation is required as well.

Hurrah! Adding a 1/16th shim to each rear (and readjusting the toe in accordingly) has been a significant advance. Good steering behaviour at low speeds and reasonably stable on the straight up to 70mph. Not what you call 'rock solid' but way better than it was. On a hands off test at 65mph the vehicle follows it's own line well. Steering remains light and has not gone heavy. Although not quite there, increasing the caster has certainly helped Shims are now L1f2r, R1f2r. Is it worth an experiment wit pushing the caster one step further (one more shim)? From what I understand from the above if the steering gets unduly heavy the that indicates toe-in excessive. And I've found a Herald anti roll bar. Will that do as a replacement for the incorrect 7/8ths one currently fitted? Ideas? Thanks

That's a hard one. Most areas have survived extremely well but rust has got a stronger grip in some of the outer sections. I wouldn't fancy 'spinning' a whole, intact car complete with mechanicals. Health and safety waiting to happen. And, without complete dismantlement, media blasting would have much the same effect as doing it by hand i.e easy areas would clean up lovely - but the nooks and crannies would be the same problem. Can't tell everything from photos but my own inclination is to consider the areas as two domains: 1) Those which are accessible to wire brush (and suchlike) and can be brought up to clean(ish) metal. In which case I'd go Bondaprimer> Dulux Exterior gloss> any wax. 2) Inaccessible areas (e.g undersides of outer riggers). Physically remove as much scale as possible and where possible and then WD40> Supertrol> >a really heavy wax WD40 will chase into every seam but also flash off quickly. Supertrol is very thin and will creep into seams and into scaly rust - but does not have much 'body'. And for a heavy wax old skool Waxoyl can provide a thick coating as an atmospheric barrier. Or. one step beyond, Hammerite under seal with added waxoyl. Stays tacky for a couple of years. Rust inhibitors (e.g. Jenolite) may not be a great help in you particular situation. For sure they have their place but on advanced scaly rust just tend to put a iron phosphate layer on top of deeper iron oxides.

Picking up on the above: I'm ok on measuring toe-in: I've got a hi-tech tool with a precision of better than 1/128th inch (ok, three bits of angle iron welded together and a 1/4 unf screw acting a a fine gauge). Negative amber on the front? The data I've got is about 2 degrees positive. Is this right? So nest week will be to experiment with the caster and gain some experience with judicious road testing. Anti-roll bar. I suppose I should replace the 'fat' one anway. I've got a Spitfire Mk4 one. Would that do? I replace the lower steering joint with a UJ type from MevSpares, 'Upgraded' the blurb said but I wasn't expecting agricultural! It was huge! So became quite a performance to fit as it would bind up on the edges of the turret. Machining required. Tough, for sure. Fits straight out of the box - no chance!

I’ve still not cracked it (sob) so I remain open to all suggestions. I spent time today looking for factors which might contribute the issues. Found a couple of not-really tight bolts on front susp and a rather frail steering coupling. Tightened and replaced respectively. But no change to the problem so are ‘incidentals’. Tyre pressure? I wish I knew, as all my gauges give different opinions!!! But my estimate was 24f/26r psi which would be ‘book’ for a roto GT6. I tried whacking the pressure up by 6psi (ref previous thread on this subject) – major deterioration in handling, skittish and all over the place. Although the susp is standard roto all over I did spot that the antiroll bar seems to be the ‘fat’ one from the non roto GT6. Any opinions about whether the ‘wrong’ ARB might be a problem? But since my issue is lack of straight line stability at speed I don’t immediately see how the ARB would be implicated in this much. Checked the front fulcrum brackets on front suspension and they are in the right position and right way up. I’m pretty sure the rear end is ok. I had the setting the laser guys did and remeasured that myself. I then ‘unadjusted’ it adding or subtracting toe and either way the handling deteriorated so that would seem confirmatory. So caster. Guess it’s time to buy a proper gauge. In the meantime what if I simply experiment with an extra 1/16th shim on each of the rearmost brackets on the front lower arm? Are there potential disasterous consequences of such a straightforward bit of experimentation? At least to gain some insight into how making changes affects road behaviour.

Coming back on this one. Firstly, thanks for all the advice above, duly observed I've been all over it again. Everything measures up 'by the book' But the basic problem doesn't get any better. Which is to say: satisfactory steering and handling up to 55- 60mph but vague and poor centering (not 'planted') at higher speeds than that. So maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree? Should I be looking at steering rack bushes, lower steering coupling and suchlike. Would that fit in with the symptoms? The only part not replaced in the rebuild was the lower column coupling - so perhaps that's a prime target. Opinions?

NonMembers comments, above, got me thinking about what comparisons can be made between halogen and tungsten-vacuum (sealed beam) headlight units. So I dug out my capacious box of unused units. String' em up and see what's brightest: Simple yeah? Not so. First problem was what to compare with what. The H4 halogen units were all fitted with 55w/60w units or higher whereas the TV units were all rated lower than that e.g. 37.5/50, 45/55 and one unit which was 5/10. So, say, comparing a 75/70 H4 with a 37.5/50 TVSB may be a difference, but hardly a comparison. Secondly, and something I'd never really appreciated, is just how much units vary in their beam pattern. Some units produce a sharply defined 'letter box' pattern while others are highly diffused. The first attached photo' shows an H4 55/60 (left) versus a 50/60 TVSB (right) both 'on axis' - very similar looking: But it's a bit different when one shifts slightly off axis. So I guess there's no particular conclusion to this other than maybe a generalization that for classics one has to be prepared to experiment and select 'what's best' according to each driver's requirements and circumstances.

Halogen sealed beam v. H4 units (halogen): You might find the deciding factor is aesthetic. On 'our' cars OE fitment would have been Lucas with a very pronounced dome to the lens. It's quite hard to find H4 7inch units which have enough curvature, and suitable lens pattern, to look right (or right enough). But with halogen sealed beam there's a decent chance of finding NOS or pre-owned Lucas, Osram or Wipac units (for examples) which have a more authentic appearance. Also be wary of cheapie/bargain price H4 units with claims to be 'universal' - which can amount 'universally doesn't fit anything' by virtue of the casting of the three lugs on the rear the being incorrect. But if you go sealed beam then it has to be halogen SB as standard pre-halogen SBs will more than nullify the effects of your wiring upgrades. As an aside I'd mention not everything about headlights is watts and lumens. It also depends what direction those watts are pointing in (if a watt can 'point'!). My current project has some pretty average H4 units - a couple of hours spent adjusting then on the fly on unlit roads produced a far better, useable, result than was the case with the nominally correct alignement. Condition of alternator and battery makes a difference as well. Have you decided where to take the main power feed for the revised circuit?

I started off with a Sealey MightyMig100 (albeit gas rather than flux core) and found it a very satisfactory machine to start with. Eventually though, when my skills had improved, I found I needed a machine with broader capabilities (and sold on the MM100 for not much less than I bought it for). A feature of small welding machines is the rather modest duty cycle. One will be welding away and the set will shut off completely. This is not a fault and the thermal switch will reset after a few minutes. Welding can be a tediously slow learning curve at first so don't be discouraged if it seems like hard going initially.

Daunting at the outset - but one step at a time. I concur with above - not least that it may be unavoidable to have body on/off the chassis two or three times depending on how the job unfolds. Even on the chassis the Spitfire body is somewhat flexible. There is another reason to put the tub back on the chassis before doing anything else: Namely to prove that everything can and will fit. For myself I'd want to prove that doors, bonnet, front valances and bumpers can all be brought into tidy alignment. A couple of examples from my own experience are: * Failing to notice just how bad the door fit was until too late in the project (due POs sill repairs being untrue) - remedial work was more problematic than if I'd addressed it earlier in the project. • Missing the fact the the bonnet hinge pivot boxes were slightly out of alignment due combination of previous accident damage and later imprecise repair. Consequently neither bumper nor over-riders would fit right. More remedial work! 'Proving' the basic structure early on is time well spent. P.S. How about a few more photos?

Yes indeed; first thing to remove the cowl. But it's ever so easy for it to drop on the ground (and crack) it in the process so and second pair of hands is useful to catch it if necessary. The cowl is held on by three fixings, two setscrews and one nut on a stud - all 1/4 UNF so that 7/16 spanner size. Easy one first: With the bonnet fully up there will be a hex head on the underside of the light panel. Spanner or socket to get that off. Secondly: Nut on a stud. Taking the left hand unit for example. The nut/stud is at the extreme lower and extreme left of the light panel. You have to reach in with fingers right the way forward to feel it. Not removable with spanner. Requires a 7/16 socket on a short extension to 'reach in' over the nut: Then work the ratchet in to connect with the extension. The nut may come off the stud or the stud may unscrew from the cowl but either is ok. Thirdly: Really tricky. Bonnet up still. This one is located in the middle of the right hand side of the cowl (using left as the example). One has to reach in (like Twizzle) into the nose of the bonnet (extreme left and forward) and then work backwards until one can feel the hex head of the screw on the vertical face of the light panel. Pretty much impossible to see so it's all by feel. Then it's a case of feeding on a socket on a short extension, then ratchet On removing this third fastening the cowl is very likely to fall on the ground. If the cowl hasn't been off in donkey's years there's a very good chance that one or both the setscrews will be seized and the thread in the cowl itself gets ripped in the unscrewing. There's pretty much nothing that can be done to avert this and it can end up requiring a machinist to repair with an insert nut, helicoil or similar process. But by now there is access to the headlamp. If only replacing the bulb then remove ONLY the three self tappers in the chrome ring which retains the beam unit. There is no need to touch the two adjusters. Beam unit will then come out in one's hand for bulb replacement. But if for stripping for respray the the headlamp bowl (black) needs to be removed. In which case: Remove chrome ring and beam unit as above. Then twist the adjustment bowl (zinc plated) off the adjusters and reach in behind and lift the retaining spring of it's tab. Then remove the main bowl. Originally this was held in with three blind (POP) rivets which need to be drilled out. But mostly these will have been replaced by PO (or PPO, or PPPO etc) with 3 of whatever self tappers, blind nuts, or setscrews were handy. Most import thing of all is not to drop the cowl on the ground!

Joy! Old stock Kamasa hammer-throughs on eBay with translucent handles so one can actually see that the shaft goes all the way through. No hex end but are hex shaft so that's great. Bought. And thanks for the tips.

Yup. CW for sure. Superb level of technical knowledge.

From the suggestions above it does look rather like this radiator setup is actually a transplant from a Dolomite 1300. Not that that solves anything as such since I've still got to replace the fan coupling and service the system; but it does open the question of whether this is 'a bodge' to be got rid of or an 'authentic period modification' to be cherished for its idiosyncrasy. Hmmm. Descions, descisions!

Thank for the comments. V.helpful. Must admit I'd never twigged that late 1500s had an 88˚ thermostat. So I guess that gives an option to drop that to 82˚ if need be. Inspection of the viscous coupling has proved decisive. It's halfway hanging off it's bearing already so whatever the viscosityness is I need to replace that anyway. I note that VCs for MG Midgets are cheaper than 'Triumph' ones by quite a bit. I do indeed have waxstats: Recently fitted genuine SU, NOS, ones and they seem to Actually Work! Is there anything extra I should be looking out for here? So i guess that lines me up for a full cleanout and service of the cooling system. Still leaves me perplexed as to the identity of the mystery radiator (and I attach an extra photo of the 'out' hose). In practice, I suppose, it'll either scrub up ok or it won't and if the latter then there's plenty of options. Assuming at least 25 years of accumulated crud I thought I might flush with washing soda. Would two cupfuls in a gallon of warm water be about right? And should I bypass the heater control valve or will it resist the hydroxide ok? Thanks again C

I 'll get another photo of the hoses as requested previously. The symptoms are a gradual decline in cooling function over the past 4 or 5 years: initially getting somewhat hot after prolonged idling on hot days progressing to getting v.hot after short idling even under moderate ambient temperatures (and enough to cause poor running). In very other respect all is functioning normally. Apart from being topped up periodically the cooling system has had no attention since 1996. I'll check the bearing on the VC. Thanks

Spit 1500 with some cooling problems. Cooling system overdue for general overhaul for sure, but there are two particular questions. Q1. The vehicle has a non-standard rad. But I can't identify what it is. I think is from another Triumph of some sort. Could it be from a 1500? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Q2. I'm none too sure that the viscous coupling is fully functional (excessive slip). It is difficult question, but how viscous should a VC be? Is there a handy way (before I take everything apart) to get a best guess on whether it's failing to provide sufficient fan rpm under hot condition? As ever, all advice much appreciated.