cliff.b
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Posts posted by cliff.b
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2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
as for bearings there is no noises under load its only at idle thats not exactly pointing to bearings
and stethoscope use an decent (wooden handle is best ) screwdriver position on the block and put ear to the handle amazing what that will detect
move around the block to determine just where ( if any )
dont get near the fan or its up A &E to get it removed !!!
Pete
That's what is confusing me Pete and why the flywheel bolt thing sounded plausible. But why would that only be noticeable when hot?
Whatever it is, I think I need to get more knowledgeable people to listen to it when it is making the noise.
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7 minutes ago, johny said:
In my experience its the bearings not combustion chambers that are usually the first thing to show signs of wear in our Triumph engines and I read a recommendation once that on the sixes if the big ends and mains are changed at 40k and 70k miles respectively the crank will last almost indefinitely.
Its true the mains dont wear evenly and one or two will be worse than the others but the bigends tend to be more equal so as I say I would expect to see a drop in oil pressure if they are the problem.
I know youve recently changed the oil but how about doing it again but with a 20w-60 grade (about the thickest you can get once hot) to see if that makes a difference....
Yes, that's a good idea.
But first I think I should try and get some opinion from people who know more about this sort of thing than I do as it might just hide an issue that should be dealt with.
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1 hour ago, mpbarrett said:
there is a TSSC/CT meet at the Plough, Fen Ditton on Monday night if you wanted to bring it along. Should be a few people there who could lend a ear or two. Not too far from Huntingdon.
mike
Mike, I might see if I can make that. What time do people start getting there? A blast down the A14 getting there should warm it up nicely.
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20 minutes ago, johny said:
The thing is the oil pressure is good even at tickover when hot and I wouldnt expect that if the bearings were worn...
I don't know the history of this engine but before I heard this noise I felt it was in good condition. Not aware of any smoke at all and very low oil usage.
The oil pressure is good when cold but has always dropped when thoroughly hot. It is pretty much the same now as it has always been. Changing the oil last week raised it very slightly.
So I'm wondering, if the main bearings were good but just one big end was on the way out, would that drop the oil pressure noticeably?
I have no experience of this stuff in practice but just trying to think it through.
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33 minutes ago, Mark B said:
The origins of engine rattles and knocks can be hard to pin down. I had a rattle from my Vitesse engine when I bliped the throttle. Rattle sounded like it was coming from the n/s, of the block, and started to think it was the ends rattling. Bought a mechanics stethoscope, cheap as chips off eBay. Very good at pin pointing the sorce of the noise. The cause? Front SU dashpot had no oil in it. Piston was hitting the inside of the dashpot. Noise was going down the inlet manifold, like a trumpet. Wearing the stethoscope blocks out most of the other engine noises, and makes it easy to track down metalic clatters.
That's a good idea. I will get one 👍
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2 minutes ago, NonMember said:
Yes, they can, if it's "on its way out" but not yet terminal.
Hmm. If that was the case, how would it likely develop?
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46 minutes ago, NonMember said:
It could be that it only does it when the oil's hot. Your initial 20 miles including some A1 would have got the oil warm, but not hot. The St Neots traffic followed by a bit of a blatt could get it proper hot.
That's what I was wondering, but unsure how that would explain the symptoms.
Would a bearing be quiet when oil is cooler but noisy when it gets hotter & presumably thinner?
Unfortunately, this is outside of my experience.
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24 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
its a classic noyhing that happens can be explained
they have amind of theyre own you know
heat soak may have some input but if pootling around for 2 hour all will be up to the the thermostat temperature
Pete
Yes, would think it was well warmed up but it was quite a slow "pootle" with the heater on and the temp gauge was well below halfway.
After the traffic and putting my foot down for a few miles it was just about in the middle of the gauge, where it normally is.
Think I need someone that knows about these things to hear it when it's making the noise, which was the idea today, but the car decided otherwise 😒
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Had an opportunity for a drive out today with other classic car owners so decided to go and see if anyone had an opinion about my cars noise.
But when I started it, I couldn't hear it. So drove to the meeting place, about 20 miles away with the second half at speed up the A1 so we'll warmed up. Lifted the bonnet, people gathered around and it was there but barely audible and the consensus was "nothing to worry about".
So spent the next 2 hours or so pootling 60 miles or so around the countryside, then stuck in traffic through St Neots followed by an enthusiastic drive towards home.
Car driving beautifully but when I stopped, the noise was back.
Wondering if it was because the traffic and then putting my foot down made the car hotter which somehow brings on the problem?
If so, what could explain that?
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1 hour ago, clive said:
I have had a lidl one for a year or 2, very pleased with it. My local shop still had a few he other day.
I will take a look in our local one.
The only trouble with investigating the "middle in Lidl" is that I often find something else I didn't realise I needed 🙄
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8 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
very usefull on wheel niuts as well can be pretty expensive but one of them tools you remeber how good they are a long time after you forgot the costs
mine dooes up to 330lbft and is in need of new batteries so its lost some umph!!
my best buy was a Homebase clear out for a lithium 3/8" drive for £8 !!!!!! very handy for any normal nut wizzing
( i went back to buy the stock but some creep got there before me Ha!)
Pete
I should have bought one when they were in LIDL recently, or was it AlDI 🤔
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Just briefly back to thrust washers, the engine data in my Haynes manual says crank end float of 4 to 8 thou for the early engines and 6 to 14 thou for the 1500.
Can anyone confirm if that is correct as I haven't seen a mention of a difference elsewhere?
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8 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
i use 1/2" drive battery impact wrench to wizz them big nuts off.
Pete
Might need to buy one.
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56 minutes ago, NonMember said:
You're probably OK - I think the twin downpipe on a standard manifold is aligned one in front of the other, so it's quite narrow, whereas most 4-2-1 manifolds try to equalise lengths by bringing one of the pipes inward to tuck neatly under the sump flange. Mine certainly does.
Yes, one pipe in front of the other
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4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
as the crank end float was in spec i would cross that off your to do list for now
certainly whip the pulley off and check the keyway is sound as an easier job to start with especially as its been in the frame previously
Pete
I tried to do that yesterday but couldn't shift the nut, even though it's only been on there a few months.
If I take the starter motor off I will jam the ring gear somehow and try again.
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2 hours ago, NonMember said:
On a standard one, yes, but if you have a tubular manifold fitted (as I think Cliff has) then some of the bolts are rather inaccessible and the space for removal is decidedly tight.
The manifold is standard but I'm not certain if the downpipe that connects to it is.
When I was underneath checking if anything was knocking I looked at the sump with a view to removing it and I don't think it would be a problem.
But how many times have I said that over the years 🙄
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2 hours ago, johny said:
Testing the running engine oil pressure will be another useful test. I bought a little cheap gauge off ebay that once in a while after a run I screw into the block in place of the oil pressure switch to see whats going on...
I have a gauge fitted. No idea how accurate but the pressures seen hadn't changed recently, but they are a little higher overall since I changed the oil on Tuesday.
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2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:
i have seen with risk of limb and fingers a starter removed once the engine was started
this was worse than risky and needs nerves of steel and a steady hand to extracate the bendix without findint the revolving flywheel
dont try it at home
this was rear mounted on a diesel and no bendix drive far simpler !!!!
if a flywheel bolt has losts its torque the mass will clatter but not show any hand derived movement
the sump off on the 4 cyl from going under is quite easy , you may need to drop the rack mounts
on the 6 pot its can be a right fight but down and dirty can work well if you need to check the thrusts but the float quoted looks OK
so do we start a book on gearbox off ??????
Pete
Hmm, yes, I decided removing the starter while the engine was running probably wouldn't be a good idea so was thinking more bump starting it rolling down the drive.
As for dropping the sump, it's not so much the complexity of the job as me lying under the car on my back working on it. Maybe I could manage it 🤔
Based on the fact that the pulley but fell off and the number of other things I have found loose on the car, I would not be at all surprised if it's a flywheel bolt.
I will try and get some further opinions on the noise before taking the gearbox out though.
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3 hours ago, johny said:
As said previously, I would have thought if its the flywheel holding the clutch disengaged with the engine running must make some difference to the noise....
Yes, makes sense, but I have now tried it and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I will take the starter off when I get time and see if that reveals anything.
Also, if I can start the engine without the starter fitted then it might be clearer where the noise is coming from.
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3 minutes ago, thescrapman said:
I drove my Mk3 Spitfire without a crank nut for a few years, the pulley now clonks even with a nut fitted and tightened within an inch of its life.
After fitting the new nut the original clonking stopped. It now sounds similar but I'm convincing myself it's from the rear of the engine. Loose flywheel bolts could make sense and the crank nut isn't the first thing I have found loose on this car.
Just it's not an easy thing to check, but at least I can do it myself. Not sure I'm up to lying under the car with the sump off these days 🤬
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1 hour ago, thescrapman said:
Yes and yes, BTDT
Doh, that's balanced out Pete's comment 😟
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30 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
Yes
Excellent. One less thing to worry about 👍
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2 minutes ago, johny said:
Maybe thats just the thrust bearing pushing back against the clutch when you lever the crank backwards. Theres a spring in the slave cylinder that ensures theres no play in the mechanical linkage otherwise your pedal would be very floppy to start with. Your crank is probably very free so this force is enough to push it forward...
That sounds possible. It moved rearwards by pressing quite hard by hand.
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5 minutes ago, dannyb said:
Oops your right Cliff, for some reason I thought it was on the limit of 6. So 6 is well in spec.
Danny
Ok, you had me worried for a moment. What about the "centralising" bact to a zero position after being pushed in either direction?
Is that normal? Any examples I have seen in YouTube show it moving and staying there, although they were always about excessive float.
Worrying noise
in Engine
Posted
Ok, yes I agree that could well be a reasonably simple way of proving what sort of issue I am dealing with.
Good idea 👍