Driver's door needs to be SLAMMED hard to close

[micmak]

6 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

when we played around with body off etc we made two simple wooden bars witha slot to fit over the door seal flange and this made sure the gap could not close up while fiddling 

also under the tread strip added a sized hole and countersunk bolt to fix the decided position 

still have the "gap " gauges  will try to get a tape measure on it 

just an idea 

Pete

Pete, I appreciate your answer, but I don’t understand it.  Sorry!  Can you elaborate, please?

Thanks.

…..Mick…..

[Pete Lewis]

it can take a good stick with old rubber pads and underseal .

just measured the "woods"   bit of 2x1"  approx 41.5 " long

slotted ends at 40.25"between slots ,needs a chamfer to allow you to roll the stretcher bar over the door seal flanges and push down to midpoint .

cant photo as dont have the Vitesse to show a trial fit 

dimensions all subject to the car needs  

does that help ??

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

lets go back a year many suggested the A post/screen has pulled back due to hood tension , looking at the tapered gaps on the bonnet i am sure the fitting of some decent washers cut to make a C slot  add these to the side mount to tilt the A  post fwd.

you gain fwd. door hinge adjustment  the fact the hood is tight

is the likely culprit and its replacement should be part of your next assignment      hows that as an idea

as we have said one way to shift the rear tub is 3 shreaded wheat on the handbrake lever

pete

 

[micmak]

I used pieces of wood as shown in the Workshop Manual, see photo.  I wedged them in and forced the door to close.  But it didn’t actually move the body and opening the door again to remove them was a helluva job!  I tried the handbrake idea, and it didn’t do anything!

[micmak]

I understand there should be pads at the various bolt points between the body and the chassis.  If they are glued into position with some sort of mastic or silicone, I wonder if it is possible that they are preventing the body from moving.  Is it realistic to totally remove all the bolts and pry the body off the pads at each place, and then try my wedges in the door jamb again?

 

[Pete Lewis]

yes a gentle pry with a crow bar etc is quite ok

doesnt take a lot of load to lift the tub 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

 

Is it realistic to totally remove all the bolts and pry the body off the pads at each place, and then try my wedges in the door jamb again?

Yes, just done that on one of mine. Loosened all the bolts through the chassis, jacked and wedged at various places, then retightened. Remember however there's a line of screws across the centre to the centre chassis outrigger, so unless these are loosened (and removed totally is probably better) they'll prevent any movement of the rear tub.

[micmak]

26 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Yes, just done that on one of mine. Loosened all the bolts through the chassis, jacked and wedged at various places, then retightened. Remember however there's a line of screws across the centre to the centre chassis outrigger, so unless these are loosened (and removed totally is probably better) they'll prevent any movement of the rear tub.

WOw, you needed to use a jack to pry the body off the chassis?  Ok if it can be THAT stuck, then no wonder I couldn’t move it with wooden wedges in the door jambs.

[micmak]

The workshop manual says that when reassembling the body to the chassis, you should use Bostik 1261 on all pads.  I am assuming this was done when my car was restored, and this is why I cannot “slide” the body back with all the bolts loosened. 

I am a little afraid to TOTALLY remove all bolts and use a jack and/or pry bar to separate the body from the chassis.  What if the body moves and I cannot get some of the bolts back in?   Does that ever happen?

.....Mick.....

[Pete Lewis]

the rear tub bolts/holes have a good amount of clearance i dont expect you will get any unwelcome problems 

have you removed all seat belt bolts especially the ones on the tunnel  ???

Pete

[micmak]

Yes Pete, I have removed all seat belts bolts.  I think I have reached the point where I can’t go any further.  Firstly, I found TWO additional bolts in front of the seats!!!!  There are supposed to be three bolts in front of the driver’s and passenger’s seats.  But this morning, I realized that there is a fourth bolt and nut on each side!!!! The workshop manual doesn’t mention these, so I assume the Restorer put them in.   I slackened them off, and still there is no movement in the body.  
Then I tried to pry open the seam on the driver’s side floor.  It looks like the Restorer guy used body filler-type stuff to seal up that joint.  I tried to chip it away, but a hammer and screwdriver only takes off the top layer, and does nothing to open the joint.  I think now, that he welded the two body parts together!  No matter what I do, I cannot separate those two panels in the door sill area on both sides.  I think he tacked it in place.  I don’t have the means to cut that off and re-weld it later, so I think I will end up retightening everything, putting everything back together, and forgetting the whole thing, and just live with a door slam situation.
I'm feeling disillusioned. 

.....Mick.....

Edited July 9 by micmak

[micmak]

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

I am a little afraid to TOTALLY remove all bolts and use a jack and/or pry bar to separate the body from the chassis.  What if the body moves and I cannot get some of the bolts back in?   Does that ever happen?

.....Mick.....

The jack is only to spread the gaps by raising the body at that point, nothing major. There is actually quite a bit of flex in the body. Try it - loosen off the mountings along one side, put a small car jack under the treadplate with wood or rubber to spread load and prevent damage, and jack up with hand tightening only - make sure you're raising the body not the chassis. The tub will lift off the chassis and that 1/4 or 1/2 inch may be all the adjustment you need. Unless you remove ALL the bolts and screws and lift by three or four feet, it won't fall off the chassis or slide away.

The photos show my convertible before and after jacking just in front of the b-post; see how the gap expands in first photo then closes again in the second? Just simple shimming and adjustment will keep it in the preferred place; all I had to do then was raise the rear of the door slightly.

  

 

[Pete Lewis]

pity you are too far away or a club night would get so many hands on and rip the car apart

dont like the sounds of the front seal /overlap joint being tack welded 

if you feel you have given it a good try and the end result fails dont get disheartened  these thing are often a trial

we all have varying success

the difficult takes time the impossible takes a bit longer 

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

something Colin noted in another post is on a convertible there are the tongue and staple anti burst 

did you have the doors open when trying to shift the rear  tub , it wont move much if doors are shut 

just another daft occurance 

Pete

[micmak]

14 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

something Colin noted in another post is on a convertible there are the tongue and staple anti burst 

did you have the doors open when trying to shift the rear  tub , it wont move much if doors are shut 

just another daft occurance 

Pete

Yeah Pete, the anti burst parts were never touching each other as the door was never closed enough for them to engage.
 

[micmak]

OK, forgive my use of the wrong names and titles for various parts:  I have come to the conclusion that the “inner part” of the door sill was replaced.  There is a newer looking piece that runs along the whole edge of the body.  It is welded onto the body.  The finished door sill screws onto it.  Not only does it seem to be welded into place, but it looks like it was also welded to the “middle body section”(the windscreen body part).  I tried to jack up the body under the seat area, and the whole chassis also lifted.  But the seam in front of the driver’s seat is as tight as ever.  All the bolts are loose.   
I am on the verge of giving up. In the first pic, you can see where I jacked up the body. The second and third pic show how loose the other bolts are under the B post and just in front of the rear wheel.  

[Gary Flinn]

Mick

I would drill out the remaining rivets on your aluminium treadplate finishers and see if the front scuttle and rear bulkhead sections have been welded together at the joint.

If this is the case you are never going to open up the gap I'm afraid, I have seen this done on restored cars previously.

Gary

  

[Pete Lewis]

dont forget lifting the body will have the chassis lift as well as you are changing the unsprung weight 

so the chassis will lift until there is a balance 

hidden welds  one of the best nightmares to find  Ha !

Pete

[micmak]

5 hours ago, Gary Flinn said:

Mick

I would drill out the remaining rivets on your aluminium treadplate finishers and see if the front scuttle and rear bulkhead sections have been welded together at the joint.

If this is the case you are never going to open up the gap I'm afraid, I have seen this done on restored cars previously.

Gary

  

Gary, that is the case!!!!   I only drilled out the front two rivets, to free up the tread plate, but from what I can see when I peek under the plate, it looks like it may be welded there too.  It kinda explains why the Restorer Guy never corrected the door slam issue.  He had already welded two body halves together and to separate them again, would have meant taking the car apart again.  At the finishing stages of restoration, he probably figured it was better and easier just to leave it as is.  So, now I will do the same.  I am just nipping up all the bolts again now.  Thos two under the petrol tank are fun, aren’t they?????
…..Mick…..

Edited July 9 by micmak

[Puglet1]

Mick.

Fair play to you. I reckon others would have given up long ago.

Depending on how much interference there is between the door and B pillar, it might be worth taking the car to an old school panel beater to see if stretching or shrinking is possible where the 2 panels are contacting each other.

It probably won’t make any difference to your panel gaps but might overcome the frustration of slamming the door.

Pete.

[micmak]

30 minutes ago, Puglet1 said:

Mick.

Fair play to you. I reckon others would have given up long ago.

Depending on how much interference there is between the door and B pillar, it might be worth taking the car to an old school panel beater to see if stretching or shrinking is possible where the 2 panels are contacting each other.

It probably won’t make any difference to your panel gaps but might overcome the frustration of slamming the door.

Pete.

Pete, I am already thinking that.  I will attempt it myself first.  If I can dress in the door and the body, inside the door jamb area below the lock and the receiver to stop them from banging against each other when I close the door, it SHOULD help.  I will try that tomorrow or the next day, when I get the car all back together.

 

.....Mick.....

Edited July 9 by micmak

[micmak]

Well Guys, my little car is reassembled again.  All the screws, bolts, nuts and washers are all tightened up and back in their rightful places.  Carpets are all back in place, door sills on again, everything back where it belongs, and all is well.  I don’t know if it is all in my mind, or if I have simply got better at slamming the door, or what, but it somehow “FEELS” as if I don’t need to swing out of it and slam it with all my might, in order to get the door closed!  Is it slightly better?  I really don’t know, but I don’t seem to need to slam it quite as much as before.  I might try to do a little dressing of the bodywork in the door jamb to try to stop the door from hitting it, I dunno.  I’ll see how it feels over the next little while. But for now, at least, I am finished this effort.

Thanks for all your advice, Guys.

.....Mick.....

[Puglet1]

Due to the amount of flex and panel movement these cars have- you may have unknowingly improved the overall condition simply by slackening everything off and retightening.  Who knows?

Anyway, keep us updated!

Pete.

[micmak]

Pete, if anything, I’d say that I MIGHT have "stretched" open the door jamb.  When I had everything loose, I was wedging a piece of wood between the body and door in the door jamb,  and I was forcing the door to close.  It was a bitch of a job to get the door open again with this wood jammed in there.  The body sections were not separating because they are welded, but I was probably forcing the steel to open up a little bit by pushing the body part of the door jamb back into itself, and pushing the door part forward into itself, if you know what I mean.  My concern now is that I hope I didn’t cause the body to bulge out between the door and the rear wheel!  I have not had the car out in daylight to examine it for that possibility. I’ll check it out in the next couple of days.

.....Mick.....