Driver's door needs to be SLAMMED hard to close

[micmak]

Hi Folks, as I mentioned in a post in another section, my driver’s door needs adjustment.  I really, really need to SLAM it closed or else it will not “catch” and stay closed.  There is absolutely no way at all that the door will close unless I really swing hard and slam it with serious, serious force. I have looked at the hinges and lock mechanism and nothing looks loose, or worn.  There are wear marks, or rub marks on the paint work on the door and on the B post area where the door seems to rub against the body which I presume is stopping it from closing properly.   Given some surprises that I have uncovered with this car and shortcuts that seem to have been taken during it’s restoration, I actually suspect that the door’s opening is actually a tiny bit too small or tight, to allow the door to close properly.  I suspect the body panels were assembled in such a way that the door opening is too tight!  The door actually seems too big to fit into the opening, if that makes any sense.  The door doesn’t hang too low or too high, and when it is closed, it looks correct with no obvious gaps.  It seems to line up correctly, aside from the rubbing marks that I mentioned.  Do I need to adjust the body panels to make the opening a few millimetres bigger?  Or is there some other adjustment I can do. Is it a DIY task?  I have attached pics showing where the door rubs against the B post and a little video of the door not closing properly.

[micmak]

Here is the video:

[trigolf]

It might be worth temp removing the door aperture rubber seal first? Then see if the problem remains. I had the same problem with a Herald years ago that I'd replaced the rubber seal with a bubble section, which was way too thick as I later discovered. That door seal does not look like the original pattern to me.

[micmak]

Hi Trigolf,

I doubted if the rubber door seal was causing the problem, but I went out to the car and removed it at the A pillar just to see.  Then I looked carefully as I closed the door, and the door actually hits and rubs against the B pillar long before the door touches the door seal.

[Pete Lewis]

thats bad,  many need a firm slam but thats excessive

what is the panel gap door to B post  you can undo all  the rear tub mounts and move the tub rearwads

you may have a problem with the cam lock of the lock mechanism, do make sure there is a 3mm gap between the 

tappet screw of the push button and the latch release lever of the lock, there must be a gap or the lock will 

release/open and not grab the striker 

a bit of oil on all the lock parts always helps 

if you roll the lock cam over does it click into its closed position and stay there ??

Pete

[micmak]

Hi Pete,

Undoing the rear tub is what I was thinking too.  I imagine it is a big task.   

Not sure that I understand what you mean when you say the tappet screw of the push button and the latch release lever of the lock.

When you talk about the lock cam, I presume you mean the part I have pointed out in my attachment.   Yes, it does click into position and it stays there.

[Gary Flinn]

Hi

Can you post some photos of the door when it is shut showing the gaps with the 'B' Post, Sill, Bonnet and 'A' Post (Windscreen surround)

This may gives us some more idea on the problem

Gary 

[micmak]

Hi Gary,

Here are a few pics.  I adjusted the brightness due to poor lighting in the garage.   The bonnet is too high at the front drivers side, so that makes the A pillar gap look all wrong in the first pic.  I will rectify that later.   
But you can see from the other three pics, that the gaps seem reasonable and fairly uniform and even.  Sorry about the last pic -- it reflects the Corvette much more than I ever intended!!

[Pete Lewis]

gap door to B post needs to be 4mm its a bit too close 

the bonnet needs the straps under the overrider dropping  to equalise the taper you have 

these adjustable straps are often fitted upside down there is conflicting pictures depends where you look 

to me the bonnet pivot is on the single hole and the height is the slotted holes to the chassis brkt.

pete

[Steve P]

And as Pete said earlier, make sure the slider part of the anti burst catch on the body is free to move as the door closes, this affected my Vitesse until I removed it and got it all moving properly.

Steve

Edited October 2, 2023 by Steve P

[micmak]

Pete, you have blinded me a little there with technical jargon.  I will assume that if I take a look behind the overrider, your explanation will make sense to me.  But that has nothing to do with the door slamming, right?  I think I will try to move the rear body tub back by 2 millimetres or so.

 

Steve, yes anti burst catch moves and springs back as I think it should.

[Wagger]

Your shut lines are too close between bonnet and door AND door and rear tub.It may be simpler to move the bonnet , then move the door forward. Moving the tub may be difficult.

[Pete Lewis]

the taper gap bonnet to door is due to front pivot point of the bonnet is set too high its sits on links with slotted holes to raise lower the front height   its hidden under the bumper overrider 

dropping the height will reduce the tapered gap  , the whole bonnet assy will move forwards if you extend the large tie rods

by adjusting the turnbuckle (which has lh rh threads )

this swings the height drop links which apart from height adjustment allows fore aft movement 

to adjust the fit height at the screen panel you adjust the rubber cones 

the latches if needed you can adjust the hook as thats on slotted holes also 

pete

[Iain T]

Before tackling above make sure you don't have a packer behind the door hinge which could push the door rearwards. 

Iain 

[Gary Flinn]

Hi

Thanks for the Pics, it certainly looks like the door to 'B' Post gap is too tight.

According to the Standard Triumph Body adjustment notes the gap should be 3/16th of an inch (4.78mm) the Bonnet to door gap is set slightly wider at 5/16" (7.95mm)

It looks to me like your rear tub does want moving back a few mm as the front bulkhead section is in a fixed position.

I've attached the body build notes which are a useful read and may help you

Gary   

Triumph Service Training Notes Herald Body.pdf

[micmak]

Pete, Before I adjust anything or do anything, I need to fully understand what is involved.  My own assumption is that I would need to move the rear tub back a little to increase the gap at the B post.    Some guys have suggested that correcting the bonnet first and then possibly move the door forward is the correct solution.  However, I am not sure if that is the best route to take.  I have noticed just now, that the upper part of the door is also hitting the A post!  So it can’t be moved forward.  Surely if anything, it would need to move to the rear too. See the pics below.  Aside from the bonnet being too high, which I think is a separate unrelated issue, surely the door solution is to move the rear tub back a little.  

 

Gary, thanks for that PDF.  I think it kinda confirms that I need to move the rear tub back in order to allow the door to function properly.  I don’t know if I am brave enough to tackle this task.

[Steve P]

It is a fine art to get the bonnet/tub and doors in the right place, especially after 50 years and god knows how many Po`s messing with it.

There is also body flex and tub spread to take into account, if you watch the A frame as you drive you will see the gap changing slightly, on mine anyway.

My Vitesse A frame has witness marks even after I paid a supposed expert to do a full body alignment. In the end with careful setting up of the catch and anti burst  I got it to an acceptable level and without a massive slam to shut it. There are slight adjustments to be had from the hinges etc.

Depends what you want it to be, a concourse with great shut lines or a user. Mine is a user.

Steve 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Steve P

[Iain T]

The door glass channel does have some adjustment. On my Mk2 there is a screw at the bottom of the channel/door inner and 2(?) bolts behind the door trim which if loosened the angle can be very slightly changed. I played around with both door glass channels last winter using spacers to bring the top rear of the glass in. I think it moved a millimeter or two! Still have a finger size gap at the glass rear seal on my saloon......then I gave up! 

My wife's solution works, rolled up tissues bunged in the gap! 

Iain 

[Steve P]

Saloons may be different, never had one, do they have P seals on the inside of the windscreen pillar?. I have a new set but never got round to fitting them.

S

 

[Pete Lewis]

one other thing to add to the fiddle list is convertibles do suffer from hood tension tends to pull the screen surround rearwards this can be solved ?? by adding packers under the rear pairs of  baulkhead body mounts  to tilt the screen forwards alittle this can help with the door window frame fouling and yes the glass frame does have some adjustment but its controlled by the glass fit or can make the drop glass far to stiff to wind down 

the whole body is a right meccano set of move this bit upset that bit  and it can be a can of worms as you work through the variety of operations that move everything and one shift can make others better or worse there are many headaches

and smiles to be had  its all doable DIY but may be frustrating at times dont give up

Pete

[Iain T]

16 minutes ago, Steve P said:

they have P seals on the inside of the windscreen pillar

Yes supposed to but mine are MIA. Another winters job is to see which of the selection of P seals I can actually fit. 

[Iain T]

2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

the whole body is a right meccano set of move this bit upset that bit  and it can be a can of worms as you work through the variety of operations that move everything and one shift can make others better or worse there are many headaches

One piece bodysides solved this, you just need an effin big press!

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

we have a local vitesse thats now one piece the sills and door appeture is all welded up as a solid non adjustable nightmare

looks very tidy but its now firmly one piece mono

Pete

[Iain T]

4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

we have a local vitesse thats now one piece the sills and door appeture is all welded up as a solid non adjustable nightmare

looks very tidy but its now firmly one piece mono

Take a plug of both door apertures and loan it out (for a price😂).

When we made prototype body in white we used front and rear windshield plugs as well as framing jigs to check the apertures were spot on. One piece bodysides took accuracy to a new level. 

Iain 

[micmak]

1 hour ago, Steve P said:

It is a fine art to get the bonnet/tub and doors in the right place, especially after 50 years and god knows how many Po`s messing with it.

There is also body flex and tub spread to take into account, if you watch the A frame as you drive you will see the gap changing slightly, on mine anyway.

My Vitesse A frame has witness marks even after I paid a supposed expert to do a full body alignment. In the end with careful setting up of the catch and anti burst  I got it to an acceptable level and without a massive slam to shut it. There are slight adjustments to be had from the hinges etc.

Depends what you want it to be, a concourse with great shut lines or a user. Mine is a user.

Steve 

Well yes, who know how many previous owners have been messing around with this car.  And how comprehensive was the restoration?  He did do a full body-off resto.  I have photos that he took at various stages, but it seems quite apparent that he didn’t do a great job at aligning the body panels.  And yes, there is a lot of flexing as you drive.  The passenger door opened one day while driving along, because of body flexing!!

I don’t particularly want the car to be perfect or concours level.  I just want a nice, driveable car.

I have been out at the car looking at the mounting points and re-examining the door gaps.  I think I have reached a decision about the gaps.  I am not an expert by any means, so I think I need to locate someone who has done adjustments on a Vitesse or Herald.  I think I should watch them, and learn from them as they make adjustments for me.  I don’t have any jigs or any specialized tools that might be needed.  But most of all I have no experience at making adjustments to the car like this.  Maybe if I can find someone who can do it while I watch and/or help, then next time I will have more confidence to tackle it myself.  But now, I am really a novice and I think it is best if I don’t tackle this alone.  I DO have some confidence to try to lower the bonnet a little but to take apart the car’s body to adjust the door gaps, it a little beyond me, at the moment.

On a totally unrelated subject:  a good thing that I discovered this morning;  the car started first time with a full choke!!!!! 😆