CV Conversion Driveshaft Removal

[Htiek]

Well, my Vitesse passed its MOT with a couple of advisories: Binding front calipers and rear wheel bearing play getting excessive.

I made a start investigating the rear wheel bearings. I had gone to some trouble fitting and shimming new bearings at the same time as converting from Rotoflex donuts to CV driveshafts, so was surprised that they were a problem. Anyhow, I pulled the nearside hub only to reveal the shattered remains of the spacer ring and some mangled shims, hopefully you can make these out in the attached photo. It looks like I must have got something fairly catastrophically wrong during assembly.

The next step is to remove the driveshaft to find the rest of the spacer ring and probably replace the bearings. The driveshaft conversion were fitted when at the rolling chassis stage and now I am a bit baffled as to how to remove them with the body in place. I have it unbolted from the diff but can see no way to manoeuvre  it past the diff to withdraw it from the vertical link.

Can anyone out there who has done this conversion point me in the right direction for taking a shaft out? I am hoping it is not necessary to disassemble the vertical link from the car in order to proceed but it is looking increasingly likely 

If anyone has any suggestions as to what is likely to have gone wrong and caused the damage, I would love to hear them too.

Cheers,

Keith

Edited September 9, 2017 by Htiek
Corrected typo

[Adrian]

Hello Keith. Did the conversion on my GT6 mk3 last year. I'm afraid you are partially right. I was able to undo the top of the vertical link and drop it forward to manoeuvre the shaft out to adjust shimming although if you races are damaged you may have to remove the link to drift out.

I was able to do this with the brake pipe still connected, just!

adrian

[Htiek]

Thanks Adrian, you've confirmed what I was thinking ☹

I don't have a spring lifting bar so was hoping there was a way to avoid disconnecting the vertical link. Did you manage without using one? I will admit to using ratchet straps when I assembled the suspension but at the rolling chassis stage, access was a lot easier.

Cheers,

Keith

[Adrian]

I did have a lifter and very useful it was for return adjustments. Costly for a one off but whilst you can do it with clamps and straps particularly as you just have to take the load rather than lift it a long way, it is by far safer to use a lifter.

its all down to the equipment you have. Maybe someone in your area has one?

[Adrian]

Forgot to say you shouldn't need to remove the driveshaft if you drop the vertical link.

[Htiek]

Thanks again Adrian.

A new problem I hadn't expected is that the 'usual' suppliers are all showing the bearing spacer (152483 to 152487) to be no longer available.  I'll have to cast the net further or possibly look at having some made. Hey-ho...

[Adrian]

Try leacey classics in Birmingham, that's where I got mine from

[Htiek]

Thanks again Adrian.
I also got sent a link to ebay, someone on there is re-manufacturing them in various thicknesses.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=152483&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xtriumph+152483.TRS0&_nkw=triumph+152483&_sacat=0

[Adrian]

Yes, Those are the spacers, so you can get the fine shims to achieve that elusive end float!

[Htiek]

A mate managed to come up with some thick wall box section and flat bar. An hour or so and we've welded up a rough approximation of the spring lifting bar shown in the workshop manual.

I'll have a go at attacking the upright tomorrow evening.

-Keith

[Paul H]

Having recently changed doughnuts on my Vitesse MK2 I know what an issue it is and without a Spring Lifter it's not possible . I thought the CV conversion elimated the use of the Spring Lifter ?.

Paul 

[Guest]

Hello Paul.

That is not the case.

I'm in the process of doing the CV conversion and have also stripped out the spring for an overhaul and the rear diff.

Once the diff goes back in and the spring is bolted in to position you will still need the lifter to bring the curve of the spring level / in line to fit the hub assembly - which of course you will know. That said it does not make a difference be it CV or Rotoflex, the spring still requires raising up so it aligns with the hub assembly for bolt placement. The curve of the spring (untensioned) will also prevent the hub being placed in the correct position.

The other advantage is that it is a spare of hands which of course, again as you know, is extremely useful when carrying out the refitting. In addition and if nothing else it is safer to use one and that has its own merit.

Keith - you will be pleasantly surprised just how useful the spring lifter is and of course keeps the spring out of the way as you refit the hub.

Good luck.

Richard.

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, classiclife said:

Hello Paul.

That is not the case.

I'm in the process of doing the CV conversion and have also stripped out the spring for an overhaul and the rear diff.

Once the diff goes back in and the spring is bolted in to position you will still need the lifter to bring the curve of the spring level / in line to fit the hub assembly - which of course you will know. That said it does not make a difference be it CV or Rotoflex, the spring still requires raising up so it aligns with the hub assembly for bolt placement. The curve of the spring (untensioned) will also prevent the hub being placed in the correct position.

The other advantage is that it is a spare of hands which of course, again as you know, is extremely useful when carrying out the refitting. In addition and if nothing else it is safer to use one and that has its own merit.

Keith - you will be pleasantly surprised just how useful the spring lifter is and of course keeps the spring out of the way as you refit the hub.

Good luck.

Richard.

Canley's write up suggests its a straight fit implying no need for a lifter - is theirs different ? or have I read it wrong

Paul

Quote

Fed up with changing those rubber doughnuts? Finding it difficult to source 'genuine' Metalastic doughnuts, and when you do they are horrendously expensive? Fed up with that rubber doughnut 'wind up' feeling as you pull away sharpish from the lights? Fed up with the pain and agony of fitting your rear suspension units, and the distortion required in the doughnuts before you can get that trunnion bolt through? Fed up with that puny UJ wearing out silently but deadly on the other end?

Here is the solution: a complete, ready assembled, ready to fit alternative.  Uses standard bearings, shims, and outer hub. Simple fitment, no adaptors, or modification/machining of the vertical link required like other kits.

We take none of the credit for this set up as it was suggested to us by an ex senior Triumph factory engineer who pointed us in the right direction of which components to use for what is in effect a factory designed upgrade. The parts were always there, they just needed putting together into a kit. Developed with the help of one of the most respected driveline design and manufacturing companies in the UK, and tested in the strenuous environment of multiple types of competition, theres no more stronger or cost effective solution available.

Can be used with the standard cast iron vertical link or our alloy alternative. Once assembled into your vertical link, the whole assembly is a joy to fit as its under no tension whatsoever.

On the market now for over a decade, and approaching a thousand kits sold worldwide.

The kit includes two axle assemblies (car set), complete all the way from the diff output flange to (but not including) the outer hub.

Oh, one last benefit (as if it were needed)! compare the weight of our kit with the stuff you will be removing, I think you will be impressed with the saving!

Please note

Setting the wheel bearing end float on a rotoflex car (standard or CV conversion) is critical. If you haven't done one before and aren't armed with a factory workshop manual, a pile of shims, spacers, and a decent set of tools then we would suggest getting a professional involved. Please check with your preferred garage/workshop that they regularly carry out rotoflex rebuilds before entrusting this work with them. 

 

[Adrian]

Exactly what I have Keith. I didn't use a jack to raise the spring lifter, once back axle was supported I just lifted with an axle stand ratchetting up underneath until it was high enough. As Richard said a joy to use!

Paul - you will need to take the tension to allow fitting to the vertical link (unless of course they've designed it to slip in from the back with the vertical link still in-situ) - which I doubt as without lifting the tension it would most likely foul on the VL brackets. I think the highlighted text says it all - 'Once assembled into the VL'

 

Cheers

 

Adrian

[Paul H]

59 minutes ago, Adrian said:

Exactly what I have Keith. I didn't use a jack to raise the spring lifter, once back axle was supported I just lifted with an axle stand ratchetting up underneath until it was high enough. As Richard said a joy to use!

Paul - you will need to take the tension to allow fitting to the vertical link (unless of course they've designed it to slip in from the back with the vertical link still in-situ) - which I doubt as without lifting the tension it would most likely foul on the VL brackets. I think the highlighted text says it all - 'Once assembled into the VL'

 

Cheers

 

Adrian

Thanks for clearing this up. I will keep my spring lifter !!!!

Paul

[trigolf]

I think that the 'no tension whatsoever' in Canleys description refers to the original Doughnut which seems to exert forces in all sorts of directions - just when your trying to line up the v link with the spring eye to put the bolt back in! Been there...........

[Htiek]

Home made spring lifter worked well. As you can see I ended up supporting it on the road wheel. Perhaps not the best way but the height was perfect.

I ended up removing the whole vertical link after I saw the amount of shrapnel that was in there  The spacer ring has shattered into many pieces. Looking at the driveshaft I am now wondering if the large spacer (I think it is part No. 148850 in the attached drawing) should be fitted to the driveshaft? I thought the new shafts were machined to include this spacer distance...maybe not? I don't have my old rotoflex driveshafts to compare with now unfortunately.

It is a concern that it all seemed to go together OK with what looked like the correct amount of end-float but within 50 miles has failed dramatically. I can only assume that something loosened off allowing the shaft to wallop back and forth destroying the spacer ring.

New wheel bearings on order, I'll hold off on ordering the spacers until I can get an accurate measurement of distance required.

-Keith

[Guest]

Keith.

I still have my old Rotoflex units in the garage, if there is anything you need photographed or some other help let me know.

Regards.

Richard.

[Htiek]

Hi Richard,

That's a very kind offer, thanks.
It would be good to see a photo of an original driveshaft with the 148850 spacer fitted.

My CV conversion kit was from Rimmer Bros but I think it is the same as the Canley version. The description on their site sounds exactly the same anyhow. Is this the same kit you have?

-Keith

 

[Guest]

Keith,

I have the Nick Jones conversion, which is a completely different kettle of fish - sorry.

Will get some photos on to the thread some time tomorrow afternoon regarding the R/f units.

Regards.

Richard.

[Guest]

Hello Keith.

I have attached a few photos and hope they will provide the answers what you are looking for.

No 1 draw line indicates a minute lip, hardly anything at all but definitely on both shafts and No 2 shows the taper, which you can see on your previous thread photo.

Part number 148850 is also included within the photos

Any extra "snapping" let me know.

Hope the above assists ??

Regards.

Richard.

[Paul H]

Hi Richard - Out of interest did you have any shims apart from the spacer ?

Paul 

[Guest]

Hello Paul.

No, everything in the photo is what came apart and nothing has been thrown out. I presume the shims fit next to 148850 ??

Not having seen them before, hence my question.

Regards.

Richard.

[Paul H]

3 minutes ago, classiclife said:

Hello Paul.

No, everything in the photo is what came apart and nothing has been thrown out. I presume the shims fit next to 148850 ??

Not having seen them before, hence my question.

Regards.

Richard.

Yes the shims fit next to 148850 - When I dismantled my drive shafts there were no shims , I changed the bearings and them reassembled dry using Canleys recommendations adding / removing shims as required. This did mean reassembling several times each side  - When the  set up is acceptable reassemble using grease . I sourced shims from a couple of suppliers and Leacy Classics were the best as the shims could be added and removed with ease - I also purchased from another supplier though they were a very tight fit and couldnt be removed without damaging them. On querying this with the supplier I was told my drive shafts were over size. 

Quote

Note 4  https://www.canleyclassics.com/technical-archive/rear-end-noises

Replacement wheel bearings should be re-shimmed to give the correct end float/preload. In most cases replacing the equivalent shims and spacers from the old unit will give an acceptable result but if the hub has been replaced or the unit assembled from parts, then the following procedure should be followed. Fit bearing cups into vertical link. Fit outer race and outer shell into vertical link. Fit hub making sure it is fully down. Fit inner race. Put spacer and shims in place - measure across bearing inner race with straight edge and feeler gauge such that the hub and shims are 0.001 - 0.002 higher than an inner bearing race. Fit outer axle shaft fully home and tighten nut to 90ft/lb. You should feel VERY slight play - if you can feel end float, reduce shims - if preload, increase shims. When correct, take apart, grease and fit inner seal.

One final word of warning, don't assume that every garage (even classic car specialists) is capable of rebuilding roto wheel bearings. We have seen some shocking bodges over the years carried out on customers stuff brought into us after recent work by 'professionals'.  You need to assertain that who ever  you trust your rotoflex with has a proven track record with the stuff, is regularly practised in the art, and has a ready stock of shims/spacers, etc before he attacks it.

You have been warned!

Paul 

[Guest]

Hello Paul.

That is the downside with the CV conversions that still require shimming; hence my option to go for the NJ Conversion.

Secure the new style drive shafts to the rear diff, slide on the machined hubs, fit the other sundries and job done. No shimming required.

Oversize d/shafts - really ?? !! Out of interest what was your response to that ?? !!

Regards

Richard.