Front suspension turrets - Herald / Spitfire differences?

[Colin Lindsay]

I'm working ahead of myself so sandblasting and refurbishing front suspension turrets for the Herald 13/60 so as to enable a straight swap when I get to the winter restoration stage. I've almost run out of good suspension turrets and having sorted out the terminally rusty and the dented beyond use versions I have one 1200, two early 948 (which I don't want to use) and two which I believe from the remaining yellow paint are late Spitfire 1500 versions.

I was told some years ago that the Spitfire versions are lower than the earlier cars, although visually the same. Canley lists the Heralds as 305592 and 305593, and the Spitfire 1500s as 305746 and 305747.

Does anyone know what the exact difference is, and if any problems will arise that I haven't yet thought of by using Spitfire turrets in a Herald? I cannot for the life of me see any differences when compared. The photo shows my red 1200 turret against the opposite side black / yellow Spitfire version.

[Colin Lindsay]

Ok found it!! The fronts are the same but the engine mounting is lower; obvious if you turn them over and check the other side. I'm now wondering what difference if any this would make when fitted to the Herald; I think it was originally to help the carbs clear the lower Spitfire bonnet, or somesuch. Anyone reckon that something would foul, or be unduly strained, if the lower turrets were used? I don't want to go to the bother of blasting and repainting if they're of no use in the first place.

[Pete Lewis]

turrets 1200/13/60  mk1 and mk2 chassis  305590/2 

spitfire  305747/46  

whys the difference  you could be right just to drop it a tad 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Just now, Pete Lewis said:

turrets 1200/13/60  mk1 and mk2 chassis  305590/2 

spitfire  305747/46  

whys the difference  you could be right just to drop it a tad 

Pete

I think the Spitfire turrets were lowered to stop the twin carbs fouling the bonnet; not a big problem in a Herald but I'd worry about the bottom end of the engine resting on the steering rack, or the sump fouling, or the like. By the time I get so far it'll be a lot of work and too late to alter things hence the question... just in case!

[Peter Truman]

I had the opposite with my daughters Spitfire a previous rebuild when a replacement chassis was fitted the Herald/Vitesse turrent had been fitted on the O/S causing the engine to sit high whilst it cleared the bonnet the top rad hose which is short wouldn’t fit far too distorted.

I didn’t know at the time re the different turrents and it was only when sat looking at the turrent and comparing it with my Vitesse which had the same turrent did the Eureka moment happen, I Sourced a new turrent and it dropped the engine enough for the hose to realign, but I think the N/S turrent is wrong but that’s a bridge to far! I did have the dimensions of the respective turrent top wishbone pivot bolt to engine mounting bolts and I think the N/S is different to the O/S on the spit range.

[Colin Lindsay]

I've been out a few times, studied everything on my other Heralds from pressure relief valve, sump, radiator fan, exhaust, oil filter etc etc and cannot see anything that such a small drop would affect; but I know there's always something that I haven't thought of - top rad hoses maybe, bottom hose... something simple like that that will stress and go bang after little use... me being paranoid again! (Ok I can drop the rad too, but there's always something else)

[Pete Lewis]

if it drops then theres surely only the rack that may get close to the sump ??

hoses should be fine 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Assuming the front engine plate that also includes the engine mounting bracket are the same on the Spit and Herald engines then using the lower Spit turrents the sump should surely clear the rack (I hope).

Colin with the Spit the rad was already at it's lowest position and still is, the Herald having greater bonnet clearance could possibly be set lower on the set of 3 mounting holes.

On the Spit changing just the O/S turrent lowered the engine by about 3/8 to 1/2in.

When I can get down to the daughters (30klm away) in this "Worlds Most Locked Down City" I'll check the turrent engine mount dimensions compared to the Vitesse. I'm pretty sure the Spit still has the wrong (ie Herald/Vitesse) N/S turrent as I couldn't get a replacement locally then I'd have to get it sandblasted and powder coated red, and with the O/S replacement it alleviated the problem. 

 

 

[Peter Truman]

Colin I got down to the daughters today, an allowed Carers trip under lock down to look after the grandkids as daughter had a MRI appointment on her back and neck, ongoing issues from car accident at 16, as I indicated the result re the Spit & Herald Turrents re dimensions from the centre of the top wishbone inner front pivot bolt to the engine mounting top bolt centre are;

Spitfire;

• O/S Turrent, 3.25in
• N/S Turrent,  4.125in

Vitesse, Herald, GT6;

• Both N/S and O/S Turrents the same at 3.75in.

Hope this helps in your current Herald 13/60 analysis,

Peter T

[Colin Lindsay]

5 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Spitfire;

• O/S Turrent, 3.25in
• N/S Turrent,  4.0in

Now THAT'S very interesting - there's a difference between sides? May be the reason I never spotted any difference, before. I have one good useable Herald turret, and two Spitfire. What are the chances of the higher Spitfire side being the one I need?

I'll be out in the garage shortly and will check. Does that mean that the Spitfire engine was not lowered, but tilted?

[Peter Truman]

looks as though the Spit engine is shifted across to our O/S why I don't know, maybe some one knows, was it like the GT6 for the USA having their Drivers side spring with a booster spacer?

[Colin Lindsay]

Just been out and visually checked - the two Spitfire turrets appear to be the same height of engine mounting on both N/S and O/S, so unless I've measured them wrong (just set them side by side, and one still has the wishbones stuck in place) they're both low. I don't want to risk using the Spitfire turrets in case they do mess something up on the Herald, so will just end up blasting two Herald turrets instead.

[Peter Truman]

probably safer.