Russell P Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 This is my first post in this forum. I am deep into a TR4 restoration right now but am considering taking on restoration of a GT6 that came to me. I have not decided if I can restore this one yet. That GT6 is a Mk I with Commission Number KC8113 L and the car is for sure LHD. But I see looking in another US based forum site there is someone in the UK who has registered a GT6 with the exact same number as mine except for the "L". That member did not answer the email given on the site but I will try again. My question: Did Triumph make identical Commission Numbers with only the "L" or lack of the "L" being the difference ? My car has without doubt the original and correct commission tag, so I am hoping Triumph did this vs me maybe having a duplication issue with someone. Perhaps he just mistyped his number on the site but he's not answering his email. Your help appreciated. Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 I'm fairly sure the factory never intentionally duplicated the numbers and the L cannot be used as a disambiguation. Most likely that other owner has mistyped. But if you're sure your one is genuine, and you're not in the same jurisdiction, does it actually matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell P Posted February 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 It matters if I want to register my car somewhere that the other car is already registered. It is not the end of the world but it is a puzzle that has a logical answer and I wanted to find out so I asked. I’m not making a major issue of it. But I will say here in the US duplicate VIN numbers are a big problem as generally that means fraud (someone has masked a stolen car). That this other car is in the UK means that is not the issue at all, never thought it was. And, as I hoped, this evening I have received a private communication indicating it was just a typographical error. So mystery solved. I can tell the FBI and MI5 to relax. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Here in Aus up until VIN numbers the engine number was the critical Registration ID, the second number logged on the car Registration was called the Chassis No. but in actual fact could be the cars Comm No., or Body No. or even actually the Chassis No. as I can attest to when verifying the cars authenticity for Club Permit a form of classic car rego here. Confused! and of course Aus assembled and registered cars don’t have a UK Heritage listing? checking back thro the pre 84 Victorian Registration records often indicates that there are duplicate engine numbers for different cars of the same make, usually where the cars have been registered a few days apart ie a clerical error! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell P Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 In my state, North Carolina, they heavily scrutinize and research classic cars being registered in the state coming from outside the state. There have been serious issues with people faking high value classic cars where there were plentiful models with regular options but few or special order only models for racing and such that now are very rare. People build and fake the plain ones to appear as the rare ones and the crime in that is not the modification as you can modify the cars but the crime is that they change and fake the VIN or Commission tags or buy just the title and tags off wrecked or beyond repair cars. The misrepresentation is the fraud. They make very hard to catch clones…you pay $100K for a 70 Challenger with a factory shaker hood and hemi with a four speed and all the numbers match but actually when it started life it was and automatic six cyl family model that would go for $20K now. Other states have easy registration processes that almost facilitate the misrepresentation and the bad guys use those states to launder the cars. Anyway our highway patrol (State Police) are strict in reviewing older classic type cars for hints of misrepresentation malfeasance. It took 4 months to get my TR4 ok’d and it was a clean commission tag and had a solid title from neighbor state, Virginia, where they are not pushovers. I want to be sure there is no chance I have pieces of someone’s stolen car or vice versa before I put money into a restoration and have the State Police tell me it can’t be put on the road. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 The Assoc of Motor Clubs local here do vehicle checks privately and sometimes for the police from the old rego records there are a few rare local manufactured classic vehicles eg Holden XU1 and Ford GTHO we reckon by the checks we get asked to do there are more of these cars now than originally manufactured. one recent check resulted in the police charging a seller with fraud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Russell P said: In my state, North Carolina, they heavily scrutinize and research classic cars being registered in the state coming from outside the state. There have been serious issues with people faking high value classic cars where there were plentiful models with regular options but few or special order only models for racing and such that now are very rare. People build and fake the plain ones to appear as the rare ones and the crime in that is not the modification as you can modify the cars but the crime is that they change and fake the VIN or Commission tags or buy just the title and tags off wrecked or beyond repair cars. The misrepresentation is the fraud. They make very hard to catch clones…you pay $100K for a 70 Challenger with a factory shaker hood and hemi with a four speed and all the numbers match but actually when it started life it was and automatic six cyl family model that would go for $20K now. Other states have easy registration processes that almost facilitate the misrepresentation and the bad guys use those states to launder the cars. Anyway our highway patrol (State Police) are strict in reviewing older classic type cars for hints of misrepresentation malfeasance. It took 4 months to get my TR4 ok’d and it was a clean commission tag and had a solid title from neighbor state, Virginia, where they are not pushovers. I want to be sure there is no chance I have pieces of someone’s stolen car or vice versa before I put money into a restoration and have the State Police tell me it can’t be put on the road. Very strange you should say this. I was offered a "Raffle" ticket, the prize being a 1950/60`s Corvette, (in Red too!) when I took my R-V for Annual scrutiny in Houston circa 2011/2. I learned later that the Houston police impounded it because it turned out to be a "ringer". BTW, My first R-V came from N-C, personal import to the UK 1997. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell P Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 hours ago, PeteH said: Very strange you should say this. I was offered a "Raffle" ticket, the prize being a 1950/60`s Corvette, (in Red too!) when I took my R-V for Annual scrutiny in Houston circa 2011/2. I learned later that the Houston police impounded it because it turned out to be a "ringer". BTW, My first R-V came from N-C, personal import to the UK 1997. Pete That is exactly what happens. People make the fraudulent car with fake credentials then sell it to unsuspecting people who later get the car impounded during registration in another state or during the resell process as a fraud with fake credentials and it can't be put on the road or worse it is impounded by the state as the product of a crime. The unsuspecting buyer of the fraud is left having paid for a car they can't use or sell and the state auctions it or just destroys it. Maybe in some cases they would allow the buyer if they were innocent victims to part out the car to recoup some of their investment, but no way can you put one of those on the road. As I say NC really are tough on these. They are the hardest to deal with in the southeast US general area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just for confirmation of Triumph’s numbering patterns Russell, you can see Spitfire commission numbers here http://www.spitlist.info/ In the MKIV production the commission number letter prefix even was different for the US market (FH vs FK for North America), but the overall numbers were still sequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell P Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 All of my Triumph experience to date is on the TR4s (and the TR3s, TR4As, etc) which I know well now.. I am very much still learning the GT6 ins and outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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