Replacement Steering UJ - Best Option

[GFL]

I've noticed a bit of play in the lower steering UJ of my new purchase and want to replace it.

There seems to be conflicting stories on the quality of some of the replacements, is it best to change to one of the original type or are the replacements sold by James Paddock as per the link below better quality, part number FAM1718?

https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/steering-column-joint-alternative-2

Also is there any easy way to swop them, the car is a Vitesse.

Thanks

Gary

[Colin Lindsay]

Those solid joints will transmit a lot of road noise, so if you have a hard, for example a wooden, steering wheel you'll feel it at the business end. I tried one of those on the GT6 and replaced it soon afterwards. Some of the other joints (not that one) also require shortening of the steering column. I'd have a go at rebuilding the old one, I've done it before now and it's easier than you'd think, although it needs to be one of the old original versions NOT the repro copies.

Is the play up and down movement - might just need tightening?

 

[GFL]

18 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Those solid joints will transmit a lot of road noise, so if you have a hard, for example a wooden, steering wheel you'll feel it at the business end. I tried one of those on the GT6 and replaced it soon afterwards. Some of the other joints (not that one) also require shortening of the steering column. I'd have a go at rebuilding the old one, I've done it before now and it's easier than you'd think, although it needs to be one of the old original versions NOT the repro copies.

Is the play up and down movement - might just need tightening?

 

Colin

The play is side to side when turning the steering wheel, the steering rack is mounted on the original type rubber bushes, will it still transmit road noise with one of the solid UJ's and rubber rack mounting bushes?

I've read bad reports on the repro original style, hence I was thinking of the new type, I've no idea if the one fitted is an original or not.

Gary    

  

[johny]

Where exactly is the play Gary? It could be rack moving side to side, play in the UJ (but I wouldnt expect side to side) or the steering column bottom bush....

[GFL]

It's definitely the UJ, when you turn the steering wheel there's quite a bit of movement before it turns the wheels.

I got a mate to turn the steering wheel and I could see play in the joint/coupling

The top column bush is good, no up and down movement at all.

The car was rebuilt around 2009 and may well have been fitted with a reproduction original style coupling/joint, I've read the rubber can deteriorate quite quickly? 

Reading up on the replacement type UJ's it seems they catch on the suspension towers if fitted to certain Steering rack pinions, that doesn't sound good! 

[Pete Lewis]

yes the modern uj versions can take up space near the turret  work well and  the pressed steel are better fit than the cast versions about

used one on the Vit6 and it took a bit of faf to clear engine and turret 

from memory i thionk we packed an engine mount and shuffled the rack 

all a bit hazy  now           cheapest optin is get some poly bushes in the orig coupling   

the modern/ horn works without the silly earth.

Pete

[johny]

Think Id go for a good second hand unit. Mines original like this and still good at over 50 years old!

[GFL]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

yes the modern uj versions can take up space near the turret  work well and  the pressed steel are better fit than the cast versions about

used one on the Vit6 and it took a bit of faf to clear engine and turret 

from memory i thionk we packed an engine mount and shuffled the rack 

all a bit hazy  now           cheapest optin is get some poly bushes in the orig coupling   

the modern/ horn works without the silly earth.

Pete

Pete

I don't know if the one fitted on my car is an original or a repro original type till I remove it?

Is it Chris Witter that does the Polybush's to suit.

Regards

Gary

 

[GFL]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Think Id go for a good second hand unit. Mines original like this and still good at over 50 years old!

Johny

I may well have an original stashed away with some spares I still have in the garage loft, I need to have a look.

Presumably the central circular part and the two clamps are solid cast steel and the 4 set screws are rubber bushed, is that correct? 

Gary

[johny]

yes here it is, only rubber components are 8 off item 4...

[GFL]

1 hour ago, johny said:

yes here it is, only rubber components are 8 off item 4...

Johny

Thanks for clarifying, I've e-mailed Chris Witor about replacement super-flex bushes for item 4.

Seem expensive to me for 8 small bushes and 8 metal washers, £25 plus V.A.T., plus P&P

a new original style joint off TD Fitchett's £42, are they any good though?

Anyone bought one of these off Fitchett's.

Gary 

     

[Pete Lewis]

try james paddock  complete orig £32 +vat

new style  £28 +

bush kit poly  £23+

 

[GFL]

6 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

try james paddock  complete orig £32 +vat

new style  £28 +

bush kit poly  £23+

 

Pete

I was looking at those earlier, do the original style ones fit ok and last though?

Another option I suppose is the superflex kit and rebuild an original one, at least I know it will fit and not catch on anything!

Cheers

Gary

[JohnD]

Did you post about this 'In Another Place'?   There I pointed out that better, stronger U/Js are available that run without rubber bushes.  See Car Builder Solutions.

John

[Pete Lewis]

me i would just re bush what you have even std rubber bushes will give you 

miles of service and cheapo 

Pete

Edited July 22 by Pete Lewis

[GFL]

16 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Did you post about this 'In Another Place'?   There I pointed out that better, stronger U/Js are available that run without rubber bushes.  See Car Builder Solutions.

John

Yes, on Club Triumph? 

Do those ones clear the suspension tower ok though John.

[Iain T]

I bought a solid uj from Rimmers which was terrible quality, I would even say dangerous as it wouldn't clamp on the shaft spline. The original units are very well made and machined so I would strongly advise to rebush. Don't forget to refit the earth lead.

Iain

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Gary Flinn said:

Yes, on Club Triumph? 

Do those ones clear the suspension tower ok though John.

Yes.

John

[Colin Lindsay]

20 hours ago, Gary Flinn said:

Pete

I don't know if the one fitted on my car is an original or a repro original type till I remove it?

Is it Chris Witter that does the Polybush's to suit.

Regards

Gary

 

As a general rule I'd say repro usually have some kind of mangled or flared bolts to prevent movement or removal - see the the ends of the ones in the first photo; originals have bolts that are tied with wire. The wire ones are the easiest to restore as they're designed to come apart, whereas the repros are 'solid state' as they used to say. I restored that one with black polybushes and 20 grade wire.

  

 

 

[GFL]

I'm still undecided what to do, I've been told by someone in the know that the solid UJ type ones transmit more shocks up the column to the steering wheel, I've got a Motalita wooden wheel fitted, so maybe refurbishing an original one with new Supaflex bushes is the way to go.

I've got some other more pressing things to look at on the car first, the rear brakes need adjusting badly and possibly rebleeding as they don't inspire confidence and need an hefty shove to stop the car, a job for Saturday afternoon I reckon.

Thanks for al the input Guys, this forum is great.😊

Regards

Gary     

[johny]

Perhaps you should consider a servo Gary because if the car stops with 'a hefty shove' the brakes work but may need assistance? It can come as a bit of shock after a modern and a remote servo is a relatively cheap and easy modification.... 

[Pete Lewis]

not sucking eggs  ha     but dont adjust the rears with axles hanging 

discon the cable , snarl up the backplate adjuster to really lock the wheels 

then adjust the cable to suit , then de adjust to free the wheels 

wear in the backplate can stop the cyl. sliding freely due to hb lever grooves .

often find rear trailing shoes get fitted upside down, unused handbrake lever hole must be 

at the bottom on the trailing shoes.

there pleanty of reports about mintex 1144 ( or the new number) to give some better bite 

if they fitted greenstuff or similar its easy to clean but you wont stop ...

and as for steering wheel feed back  poly are harder than the orig rubber decoupling bush hardness

 

Pete

Edited July 24 by Pete Lewis

[GFL]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Perhaps you should consider a servo Gary because if the car stops with 'a hefty shove' the brakes work but may need assistance? It can come as a bit of shock after a modern and a remote servo is a relatively cheap and easy modification.... 

Johny

Yes, it's crossed my mind to possibly fit one.

I had a rebuilt Girling Mk2a Powerstop servo fitted to my old Vitesse, that helped.

Gary

[GFL]

45 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

not sucking eggs  ha     but dont adjust the rears with axles hanging 

discon the cable , snarl up the backplate adjuster to really lock the wheels 

then adjust the cable to suit , then de adjust to free the wheels 

wear in the backplate can stop the cyl. sliding freely due to hb lever grooves .

often find rear trailing shoes get fitted upside down, unused handbrake lever hole must be 

at the bottom on the trailing shoes.

there pleanty of reports about mintex 1144 ( or the new number) to give some better bite 

if they fitted greenstuff or similar its easy to clean but you wont stop ...

and as for steering wheel feed back  poly are harder than the orig rubber decoupling bush hardness

 

Pete

Pete

Yes I know about the hanging wheels, not as bad on a Mk2 but still needs addressing.

I'll probably end up stripping down and giving the brakes a clean at the contact points and to make sure the slave cylinders slide ok.

I suppose bleeding the complete system wouldn't do any harm either.

Mintex 1144 pads may be on the list of things to buy after a strip down, check and clean of the front brakes, which is another item on my to do list as well.

Gary 

[johny]

9 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said:

Johny

Yes, it's crossed my mind to possibly fit one.

I had a rebuilt Girling Mk2a Powerstop servo fitted to my old Vitesse, that helped.

Gary

Not sure what boost they were but modern replacements seem to be either 1.9 or 2.3 to 1 and theres plenty on here about fitting them...