Water temperature sensor location

[Gadgetman]

I’m replacing the engine on my vitesse 6

On the old engine the water temperature sensor fits into the water pump housing opposite the take off for the inlet manifold .

on my new engine the water pump housing doesn’t have a hole to screw it into so where are the water temp sensors  located on this style of engine???

 

[Pete Lewis]

as far as i recall they are all in the same place   whats the engine number ???

but the common place is where you describe  it may just have a pump hsg thats not been drilled to take a sender ,   

why not swap it with the one from the orig  engine 

Pete

[Gadgetman]

7 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

as far as i recall they are all in the same place   whats the engine number ???

but the common place is where you describe  it may just have a pump hsg thats not been drilled to take a sender ,   

why not swap it with the one from the orig  engine 

Pete

Pete

The one without the drilled housing is HB5144HE

and the one with the drilled water pump housing is HB27500HE

I’ll have a look around at the Southern meet tomorrow to see if I can fathom it out....

[Pete Lewis]

HB is 1600 they all had a temp gauge  altough 5144 is a early engine number , butboth  had a the sender

have a idea the 4 cyl pump hsg. is the same but does not have the manifold /bypass so only has one port    if thats a thought

 

 

i would just swap the pump housing

is there a spare tapped port at the rear o/s of the head  or is yours used for heater etc.

[Gadgetman]

20 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

HB is 1600 they all had a temp gauge  altough 5144 is a early engine number , butboth  had a the sender

have a idea the 4 cyl pump hsg. is the same but does not have the manifold /bypass so only has one port    if thats a thought

 

 

i would just swap the pump housing

is there a spare tapped port at the rear o/s of the head  or is yours used for heater etc.

Yes the head has a spare tapped hole but it’s not deep enough for the sender. 

[Colin Lindsay]

The sensors should all be in the same place, on the side of the waterpump housing; my GT6 is the same, and even the Herald alloy housing I bought some years back has both holes drilled, whereas the old metal 1200 Herald ones are either all blocked, or else don't have any in the very early versions. You may have an early Herald housing on that new engine. Early Heralds used a sender in the thermostat housing, you used to be able to get aftermarket versions of these which were made for Ford Fiestas, but they're almost as old as Heralds these days.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

Remember them,  a most odd way to record whats going on after the thermostat,  

 

[NonMember]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

The sensors should all be in the same place, on the side of the waterpump housing; my GT6 is the same, and even the Herald alloy housing I bought some years back has both holes drilled, whereas the old metal 1200 Herald ones are either all blocked, or else don't have any in the very early versions. You may have an early Herald housing on that new engine.

I was under the impression that the four and six cylinder pump housings are different and not interchangeable. I definitely had two different types from which to pick the right one to refurbish for the Vitesse, and it wasn't a Mk1 vs. Mk2 thing.

[Colin Lindsay]

That's correct; the 6 cylinder ones differ from the 4, but the sensor placement is the same on both.

[Gadgetman]

Here the pictures of what I’ve got, I must admit a Canleys  alloy one is tempting...

[NonMember]

Right, so the first of your photos (fitted to an engine) is what I'd expect on a six, while Colin's photo is what I'd expect on a four. The newly painted one doesn't match any of my cars.

[Gadgetman]

54 minutes ago, NonMember said:

Right, so the first of your photos (fitted to an engine) is what I'd expect on a six, while Colin's photo is what I'd expect on a four. The newly painted one doesn't match any of my cars.

I’ve found this in the Vitesse 6 parts book which matches the freshly painted one but can’t find in the book where the water temp sensor fits!

[Herald948]

10 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

HB is 1600 they all had a temp gauge  altough 5144 is a early engine number , but both  had a the sender....

 

Actually, no. The earliest Vitesse 6 models did not have a temperature gauge (except for the "Sports 6" version in the USA). It was not until sometime in 1963 when the more common "small dial" dashboard replaced the single large speedometer with smaller speedo, tach, and separate fuel and temp gauges, which happened around HB15001, I believe.

 

I'm looking at the same early Vitesse 6 SPC, which has the diagram shown above, and I see no mention of a temp "transmitter" (or, for that matter, even the thermostat housing/elbow)! There is, however, full detailing of the gauge and wiring! Anyway, from a few photos I've saved over the years, it appears that the sender on the US-spec. Sports 6 would have gone in that threaded hole where the later cars had the heater hose. Remember, these early cars also originally had the Solex semi-downdraught carbs with no manifold pre-heater, so no need for a coolant takeoff for same.)

I hope this helps sort things out; I'm assuming your car has the later twin Strombergs, right?

[Pete Lewis]

now thats a  senior moment  memory jog, we converted the solex to stroms  and yes replaced the pump hsg. as needed the twin outlets for the manifold connections  and sender

pete 

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, NonMember said:

Right, so the first of your photos (fitted to an engine) is what I'd expect on a six, while Colin's photo is what I'd expect on a four. The newly painted one doesn't match any of my cars.

It was for illustration purposes only, to show where the sensor positions were as both later Herald and I suspect early Vitesse used roughly the same position level on the metal housing, below the thermostat housing; however the best way to illustrate something is to literally illustrate it!

From left: early Herald, no housing drillings and sensor on the top of the thermostat housing; later Herald 1200, two blocked-off drillings on the side of the housing, and lastly the 6-cylinder, one drilling but from behind, opposite the short tube at the front and opposite to the Herald position. You can see from the rear how the 6-cylinder housing (extreme right below), whilst similar in most other respects, has a different face to match the bigger head with the right-hand water channel vertical rather than horizontal:

This photo below shows a closeup of the 6-cylinder GT6 version, where the sensor enters.

The only photo I've been able to find of the 1600 engine that actually shows a sensor is this quite small version from a 'For Sale' ad which claims to be a 1965 1600 and shows the sensor exiting the side of the housing, but on the same side as the Herald models, not the GT6. For this reason , depending on the fitment against the 1600 head, you may be able to use a GT6 or later 2.0 litre Vitesse water pump housing as pictured above and just blank off the unwanted apertures.

Hope that all helps!

 

 

[dave.vitesse]

The earlier Vitesse 6 fitted with Solex carbs didn't have a water heater inlet manifold. Hence the water pump housing only had one port which was used for the temp gauge. From engine number HB27986 the Stromberg carbs along with a water heated manifold was fitted and this required an additional port on the water pump to feed the inlet manifold. This arrangement was carried over to the 2 Litre models. A later type of housing can be used on an early car providing you blank off the un-used port. The picture shows the correct later two port type

The four cylinder water pump housing has different shaped  head water ports than the six cylinder type and as a result is not interchangeable.

Still got the man-flue this end, hence missed SEM

Dave