Tom Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Hello again fellas, looks like I'm ready to put the rear tub back on. Just wanted a bit of guidance as to what fittings/spacers/washers/rubber pads go where? I have bought a full mounting kit so have everything, it's just a case of what goes where? The front tub is still on it's original fittings. Thanks, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 two metal spacers on the diff crossmember all the rest one rubber and as many solid washers / things to pack the body to level and adjust tapered B post gaps ignore the rules, wonky body on 50 yr old chassis can need lots of extra packing to get it close pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 ok Pete. When I need a spacer to adjust for wonkyness is it best go against the body or the chassis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 doesnt matter but only one rubber pad or the whole lot becomes too ...mobile i even added a fixed size bolt/hole under the tread strip to make sure the door gap never closed up ever and make up an simple wire to link/bond all the tubs and chassis together not rely earthing on rusty whatever joints Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I've just started that today; bulkhead set onto chassis five minutes ago then in for coffee before starting to bolt it down. Some of the modern clamps - the flat bits that fit into the floor brackets - are amazingly thin and distort very easily. I may end up sandblasting and repainting some of my older ones and use those, they're twice as thick. Tom - the booklet says to glue (mastic) the pads to the chassis before setting the body on; this would point to spacers and packers being on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Great tips chaps, I was going to use a touch of Tiger seal on the rubbers. I'm also presuming all this is done with the car on it's wheels on a flat surface. Yes Colin I also noticed my old flat clamps are better than the new ones!!! Why the hell can't suppliers just make things to the original spec, I have a small box of new stuff I've refused to put on my car, I've either spent time refurbing things that in any other situation you would replace as it's time heavy or sourcing second hand. I honestly think some of the stuff on sale is actually dangerous!!! Things appear to have got really bad in the last ten years or so? It's the same in the old motorcycle world too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Tigerseal is what I'm using, it was hard to find anything else these days... I noticed that with the front pair of bulkhead bolts in place on the front outriggers, but not tightened, the side mountings were quite far forward to the extent that the bolts went upwards at an angle (as far as the chassis rail tubes will allow) and I had to raise the bulkhead off the chassis to get all six fitted. The last pair are right back against the rear of the mounting so that the mounting clamp had to be flattened on one side to get it near the bolt thead coming up through the body mounting. I'll tighten up, see how it looks and try some measurements, then replace the mounting clamps with unmodified ones to straighten everything up again. Chassis and bulkhead were rebuilt by Chic Doig although back in the 1990s, so I'll assume the proportions are correct. The roof never fitted which is why the Estate was abandoned for so many years, but I'm hoping that more care now, than was taken then, will sort that out. Back in for another coffee to settle the head, then out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Seems like much fettling is par the course for this for tub fitting, I didn't manage to start mine nice weather meant wife and 2 kids wanted to go for a cycle!!!! maybe tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I've got both tub and bulkhead on, bulkhead went on surprising easily, but the tub is a difficult job for one. I didn't mastic the metal mountings on top of the diff rails, so they slid about quite a bit. I've now got it roughly in place but no idea of how it's fitting until I try the doors. The WSM says 5/16 gap for the bonnet, but the rear edge is curved and does not follow the exact line of the bulkhead, so where do you take the measurement from? At the edges it's 5/16 but then out quite a bit in the middle. It's also quite raised in the middle, between the wiper blades, which is worrying - goes down when I press on it, but springs up again. This would point to the sides squeezing in. I'll have to get help to gap it, I can't lift, slide and watch all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Is it the thick slotted washer/spacers that go on the diff rails near the top damper mount? Is it important to have a solid mounting here for some reason? The tub is very stiff in this area, maybe it adds stiffness to the whole structure and needs a solid mounting? Also does the point in the floorpan where the front bulkhead and tub fix together need some form of mastik between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 there is generally some thick alloy washer/spacers for the two diff mounts and a rubber strip to sit on the middle riggers and between the two tub flanges and bolt through it depends whats in the kit as they do vary the C washers are for adding to the rubber mounts when the bolts are in place you will have lots of ideas about this job Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Tom said: Is it the thick slotted washer/spacers that go on the diff rails near the top damper mount? Is it important to have a solid mounting here for some reason? The tub is very stiff in this area, maybe it adds stiffness to the whole structure and needs a solid mounting? Also does the point in the floorpan where the front bulkhead and tub fix together need some form of mastik between them? I read somewhere recently that the tub needs at least one pair of solid spacers to give a firm grip, otherwise it would flex about on all-rubber washers and creak alarmingly. I use solid metal washers (bought at TSSC Stafford many many years ago and I remember having a great conversation with Hugh Roberts about them) but some kits supply a pair of c-washers which might do the job provided they stay in place. The metal c-shaped shims should be thinner. When I last built this Herald I used rubber strips between the two body halves but they didn't sit properly, so this time I'm omitting them. Once I get the gaps correct I'll prise the floors up slightly and seal them with mastic before screwing to the centre outrigger. My biggest problem is the rear tub treadplates which are sitting up slightly against the bulkhead plates so that there's a noticeable gap; these will also get mastic and be clamped together before painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Colin right or wrong I used a strip of vinyl (with ridges on the bottom so it can dry out) on top of the centre outrigger to get height with a doubled up folded strip of Denso tape on the underside of the floorpan, then a similar doubled up length of Denso tape between the two body tubs. OK the Denso doesn't set which is good on the underside but there is a edge of the soft Denso on the inside pushed out from the two body panel/tub overlap and even in the high Aus temps this hasn't got sticky enough to be a problem if it did I'd seal over it with a strip of sticky fabric. It's easy to push the ajax self tap screws thro the Denso tape. Why Denso its great in these situation and I have rolls of it from my old work! Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 No right or wrong, Peter just what works best and more importantly easiest! Never thought of Denso! Good stuff on rear springs. The rubber strips which I got from a supplier are slightly thicker than I would like but don't go all the way across; fine for the underside on top of the outrigger but they leave gaps if used between the body halves as they hold the floor up where they sit. I'm using strips on the underside but I'll just mastic the top joint once I'm happy with the gaps, and will certainly cover the screw heads with to protect the carpet, even though there'll be light soundproofing over it all - just to bulk the carpet out and make it feel more... luxurious... if that's a word you can use with Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Yes Colin I thought the rubber strips seemed a bit thick for between the tubs. I'm only replacing the rear tub. I've not started yet but I'm close. I've cleaned up some of my original fittings as some of the the new one's are quite different especially the large self tapping type screws that hold the tubs together. The originals have an almost ACME type thread form where the new ones don't and are a slightly different dia and waggle in the captive clips on the outrigger. On the pic you can see the difference. Also I'm not sure if I should use the larger or smaller plates with nuts welded onto? I will reuse the thick washers in the boot for the boot outriggers. I think the rectangular keyhole plates are for the gearbox tunnel? The 6 other shorter ACME type screws might be for the fuel tank? Also does it make sense to fit the handbrake cable in place before putting the tub back? Also I'm presuming this is all done with the car on it's wheels or should it be supported at specific points on the chassis? The joys of returning to a project after many years eh!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Mine is on all four wheels, it doesn't make any difference but it's more difficult to shunt to body about if the car is jacked or raised - you can push it right off axle stands - and to be honest if they fit, I'd use the larger clamps. In your lower photo: top right six are for centre of tub at the join (with large washers, and the silver one looks like an aftermarket version) centre left four are for gearbox tunnel cover, and the lower two on the right look to be for the engine bay side valences where they screw to the front chassis legs (but you need 4). The two above could be fitting screws for the underside of Lucas horns and whilst the top pair of the six look familiar they're not springing to mind at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Yes Colin I put the aftermarket one in there to show how different it is to the originals. My front end is all together now Colin, all these fittings were in my 'rear tub jar' . I'm hoping it will become apparent when I'm building everything up where some of these fittings go! I think the ones I'm not sure about relate to the fuel tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Colin, do you have any of these steel C washers? I don't throw any old parts away and when I dug through what I thought were the old canvas/rubber washers a number of them had these washers attached to them. I chiseled them off and cleaned them up they look like they could be useful. I'll give them a liberal coating of DYNAX first of course! These are the best condition but I have three more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 I have a selection of old ones, they vary in thickness quite considerably and the alloy ones in the middle are too far gone to be reused without skimming - I can always use good ones, though, still another Herald to go. The rusty ones to the right came off old trailers and flatbed lorries, I picked them up off the ground in a breaker's yard and need to blast and clean them up, but they're quite thin and may suffice for slight adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Yes it's interesting what comes in handy, I have a plastic crate full of all the parts I've taken off my old 1500 Spit and this Herald....somehow seems wrong to throw a 40 or 50 year old original Stanpart in the bin! Very often given time and effort some parts can be refurbished, usually it's economically pointless but that's not why we do this is it!! I remember my friends Dad who had a fabulous classic car collection telling me this, he had a workshop with a lathe and vertical mill and he would refurb everything as he said a rerubished original part is usually better than a reproduction part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Well the tub is sitting on the chassis and I sense this is where the pain begins!!! I have it sitting on the alloy C washers on the top diff mounts near the top of the dampers.1 rubber washer is under every other mounting area. I have all the bolts in apart from the boot outriggers, we'll come to them in a moment! I'm presuming the resting mount things that contact the chassis near the handbrake pivot and the diff mount points give the basic vertical reference as these can't be altered? My doors seem to line up ok. My biggest concern is my boot outriggers which seem to be low by a good 15mm! which is a bit of a worry. It is the same gap each side so I don't think any twist has taken place, this seems like a lot to pack out? It's a long time since the body and chassis were one and I can't remember how much packing I took from the boot outriggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 after refitting a wonky to a rebuilt straight chassis we had 20mm packers in the boot riggers and its an anything goes job Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 'An anything goes job'................I did laugh at that!!!! Cheers Pete you have lifted my spirits, I was feeling quite down about those boot gaps!!! I might turn some bespoke nylon spacers to fit these gaps then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 I remember seeing a pile of washers on a coachbolt, maybe four inches tall, under one Herald boot... I have my rear tub roughly in place, and even when resting on the chassis the rearmost O/S mounting at the rear seat is a good inch off the chassis rail. I've paused for a bit to do other things but will get back to it before long and see how things gap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Blimey Colin four inches!!!!!!! You fellas know how to make me feel better! Mine doesn't sound too horrific now! Also I forgot to ask .....how tight should the fasteners be? I'm thinking until the rubber washers compress maybe 50%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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