I've made a mistake somewhere

[Neil Clark]

True, perhaps I'm just in a bad mood with it!

[Neil Clark]

On 03/06/2022 at 13:57, DanMi said:

horn relay with the purple wires, the other one with the home made wiring is the overdrive relay on my car

Dan, on a simple circuit the horns that were in the smash work even though they are a bit buckled.  But there is no fuse in the circuit.  Logic says that I should copy your wiring layout and get the same fuse and correct relay, although I don't have the starter button.  Is there a way for me to test the horn push circuit before I fit the slip ring etc etc?

[Josef]

7 minutes ago, Neil Clark said:

Dan, on a simple circuit the horns that were in the smash work even though they are a bit buckled.  But there is no fuse in the circuit.  Logic says that I should copy your wiring layout and get the same fuse and correct relay, although I don't have the starter button.  Is there a way for me to test the horn push circuit before I fit the slip ring etc etc?

Yes. The slip ring should have a purple/black wire running from it through the steering column shroud. This connects to another purple/black wire which should be in the same bundle as all the light stalk wires you’ve been working on. The horn push is just a switch to earth, so if you earth the purple/black connection then the horn should sound. 

[DanMi]

what do you mean you don't have the starter button, do you have the square starter solenoid from a mk4/1500? That fuse was standard and should be there, are the 3 wires to the relay there?   purple purple (the +ve) purple/yellow wire to the horns and purple/black to the horn push then to earth

[Neil Clark]

I'll have to check tomorrow.  This is what I have - taken when I collected the crashed car but all I've changed is the fuel pipe.

[Josef]

Ah, well, that looks like a non-standard starter motor. Perhaps it has an inbuilt solenoid?

[DanMi]

Ok so you have a modern starter where the solenoid (basically a big relay) is built into the starter. You have both an electric and a manual fuel pump (what is that about?) ok so that is the fuel cut off. some sort of electrical sensor on the brake line which is not standard. There should be a part of the loom emerging behind the coil, but there appears to be a repair there to the bulkhead and the loom is not there, maybe inside? (I will need to look at mine here) where is the white/red wire that activates the starter, it must go to the starter spotted it so it maybe that the PO has pulled part of the loom down for the starter so that the horn wires are now somewhere near the starter or they made a "custom" loom

Looks like a lot of non standard stuff that will need to be assessed

[DanMi]

where are all the brown wires, unswitched live connected to? GOOD LUCK there is a hell of a lot of non standard dare I say bodges going on there and trying to get your head around them is going to be difficult. The distributer does not look like the one from an early car (late mk4?) 

why is the bonnet stay just cut but left there?

[DanMi]

what is going on with the engine mount, it should not be at an angle and stressed like that? I strongly suggest that you go to a local club meet and get someone to look over all of this.

[NonMember]

6 minutes ago, DanMi said:

what is going on with the engine mount, it should not be at an angle and stressed like that?

I've seen engine mounts like that on a Mk2 Spitfire - one that had been in a serious front-end shunt (enough to bend the chassis) at some point. I think it's a result of the crash and probably wants looking into. Is the engine front plate bent?

[Josef]

@DanMi I think the photo Neil has posted is of the car as he got it compete with accident damage. It’s since had a replacement chassis and bonnet because of the things you are commenting on.

[DanMi]

could be but it needs sorting as that engine will break free very quickly

[NonMember]

5 hours ago, DanMi said:

It should be middle for main and down for dipped, Though if your happy with how it is it works then no real issue .(I'm not sure that the way you have it doesn't make more sense than the original!!!)

There is logic behind the original positions. The thinking is that, if you are a decent and considerate driver, you may well need to quickly go from main to dip, but you won't be in as much of a hurry the other way. Hence dip is at the end of travel, where you can get to it quickly without risk of overshooting.

[DanMi]

Just now, Josef said:

@DanMi I think the photo Neil has posted is of the car as he got it compete with accident damage. It’s since had a replacement chassis and bonnet because of the things you are commenting on.

ah yes you are correct and that makes sense 

[DanMi]

1 minute ago, NonMember said:

There is logic behind the original positions. The thinking is that, if you are a decent and considerate driver, you may well need to quickly go from main to dip, but you won't be in as much of a hurry the other way. Hence dip is at the end of travel, where you can get to it quickly without risk of overshooting.

yes but it also means that just as you go into a tight bend in the dark you put the lights onto main only to realise they were already there and it is now pitch black (I have wired mine as per mk4)

[Neil Clark]

I've been confusing us and apologies.  The car as it arrived look like this with the chassis buckled back to the radiator and the major impact on the nearside.  Fan bent but astonishingly no engine components damaged.  I took off the tub, got a fully refurbished Mk3 chassis, found a Mk2 bonnet and hinges (Mk1 bonnets = hens teeth) replaced the engine mounts, gearbox mounts, original radiator restored, new antiroll bar, re-bushed it, steering rack, new bolts and nylons throughout etc etc etc. I have a long long list somewhere.  I was able to drive it two years ago before I found the bonnet and now, it's as I delve into the weird electrics that I am stumped so often!  My neighbours are extremely tolerant and it became a bit of a street party as they walked past, got roped in for heavy bits and were fed tea and burgers.

[DanMi]

mk1/mk2 bonnets are identical anyway, except the grills in fact the early mk3 used the same bonnet, I did realise it was a crash rebuild but just didn't pick up on the fact that the pic was pre-rebuild . 

The wiring around where the starter solenoid should be looks heavily modified or tucked away, First thing to do is find where the second in line fuse 1 for the horns and the other for headlight flash is and where the horn wires are.

It will not be an easy task as you have nothing to guide you, but I am guessing that the loom is standard but it could be a complete custom job

[Neil Clark]

I'll let you know what I find!

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, DanMi said:

yes but it also means that just as you go into a tight bend in the dark you put the lights onto main only to realise they were already there and it is now pitch black (I have wired mine as per mk4)

Plus if you have long legs like me, when you let the clutch out your knee puts full beam on. 

I also famously drove from Stranraer to Doune Show on sidelights when I forgot the correct position of the switch and kept pushing it up from full beam rather than down; the Gt6 driver in front of me pointed it out on arrival.

I think, in that pic of the engine bay, that's yet another relay down beside the fuel pipe at the chassis?

[DanMi]

32 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Plus if you have long legs like me, when you let the clutch out your knee puts full beam on. 

I also famously drove from Stranraer to Doune Show on sidelights when I forgot the correct position of the switch and kept pushing it up from full beam rather than down; the Gt6 driver in front of me pointed it out on arrival.

I think, in that pic of the engine bay, that's yet another relay down beside the fuel pipe at the chassis?

I think that is the fuel cut off mentioned earlier

[Colin Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, DanMi said:

I think that is the fuel cut off mentioned earlier

Aha! Yes, that makes sense on another study of the fuel pipe.

However: those engine mounts are definitely wrong; possibly the mounts, possibly the front plate, but they shouldn't be bent like that and i'm hoping with the new chassis the mounts will revert to a more respectable angle. I'm trying to get my head round the post-accident angle, though - if the engine was shunted back they'd be in the other direction, but it looks like the entire chassis has been forced back while the engine has stayed in one place, and the only way that can happen is by the drivetrain holding it there while everything else moves backwards. Is the gearbox / engine okay?

[DanMi]

3 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Aha! Yes, that makes sense on another study of the fuel pipe.

However: those engine mounts are definitely wrong; possibly the mounts, possibly the front plate, but they shouldn't be bent like that and i'm hoping with the new chassis the mounts will revert to a more respectable angle. I'm trying to get my head round the post-accident angle, though - if the engine was shunted back they'd be in the other direction, but it looks like the entire chassis has been forced back while the engine has stayed in one place, and the only way that can happen is by the drivetrain holding it there while everything else moves backwards. Is the gearbox / engine okay?

that is because the photo is when he got the car (crashed) has since had a replacement chassis. Yes hit at the front and chassis pushed back

[NonMember]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

it looks like the entire chassis has been forced back while the engine has stayed in one place

That happens in front-end crashes. The chassis takes the impact and gets stopped very quickly, often buckling and distorting in the process. Meanwhile, the big, heavy engine keeps moving forward because of momentum, bends the mountings (and sometimes the front plate) and ends up further forward on the chassis than it should be.

[Colin Lindsay]

That makes sense, thanks Rob. I hadn't thought of momentum, just the engine stopping through being pushed forward by the transmission.

[Neil Clark]

The engine did move back a little on its mounts as they distorted - the gearbox mount rubbers sheared too but their bolts held and the restraining wire appeared to have done its stuff taking out the energy of the deceleration.

Dan, the starter motor seems to be of a different type to yours although there is no label anywhere on it.  Just below the red HT lead you can see a wrapped wire connecting to a terminal on top of the starter motor.  This is a red / white wire and it terminates at the ignition key.  Disconnecting it the car wouldn't start but it did not affect the red ignition light on the dash.  There is definitely no fuse in this red / white wire circuit and there is definitely only the one line fuse anywhere in the car, the one in the horn circuit.

I've got the correct but modern horn relay now with 4 pins and a wiring drawing for it.  Once the steering wheel horn contact components arrive I can test it.  I've still no success with the instrument lighting.  Apart from that I've mounted the flasher unit in the correct position on the bulkhead and repaired the rear lights which weren't working but that was just minor issues with bullet connectors and their earth.  Even got so far as refitting the battery restraining bar.