Fuel sender

[johny]

I beginning to think now that what Chris has isnt just a badly made unit but one for another vehicle. It seems to me almost impossible that they could make it so wrong unless they looked at the design drawing in a mirror!

[Pimp my Vit]

Not directly related to your problem but something I discovered when replacing mine, Ivor Davis who make a lot of parts in the UK and I had some correspondence regarding his sender, the body and float is offset on his replacement, the original is centred. You cannot fit the replacement because you can't line up the hole's as the body hits the side of the tank aperture. I think you may have a similar problem with yours not being centered.

[Pimp my Vit]

I solved my problem by purchasing a different design sender....

[johny]

so somebody has been making the units wrong and theyre still for sale! Where did you get the second?

[Pimp my Vit]

https://www.psautoparts.co.uk/product/fu-vit-fuel-system/tank-unit-screw-type-213411/213411

[johny]

Thanks, pricey but at least it fits! I was lucky and took the original apart and found the resistance wire had become detached and unravelled from the board its wound on. Surprisingly it wasnt broken so I carefully wound it back on and glued it in place with epoxy - so far, its working correctly👍 

[Pimp my Vit]

Strangely enough mine was £19 when I bought it but I think it must have been miss priced as it went up soon after I bought it. So a bargain for me!!!

[johny]

Yes 19 would be cheap even for one that doesnt fit🤣

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, johny said:

I beginning to think now that what Chris has isnt just a badly made unit but one for another vehicle. It seems to me almost impossible that they could make it so wrong unless they looked at the design drawing in a mirror!

I don't think it is badly made, electrically it works, the resistances are correct for full, mid ish and empty. Even though the control box .Is off centre it fits without problem. I'm inclined to the view the float is one the wrong side of the arm, simple to take out and refit.

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, Pimp my Vit said:

Not directly related to your problem but something I discovered when replacing mine, Ivor Davis who make a lot of parts in the UK and I had some correspondence regarding his sender, the body and float is offset on his replacement, the original is centred. You cannot fit the replacement because you can't line up the hole's as the body hits the side of the tank aperture. I think you may have a similar problem with yours not being centered.

May not be directly related but in the same vane, off centre unit but in your example far more of a problem as it can't be fitted. Out of interest which side of the arm is the float when the base plate is the correct way up?

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, Pimp my Vit said:

I solved my problem by purchasing a different design sender....

Just noticed the floati on this one looks significantly shorter than the one on my new one.

[johny]

3 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Just noticed the floati on this one looks significantly shorter than the one on my new one.

Yes floats do come in different shapes and sizes (only got to float). In fact I think the original early ones were brass...

[Chris A]

1 minute ago, johny said:

Yes floats do come in different shapes and sizes (only got to float). In fact I think the original early ones were brass...

Even though it is on the side that could cause fouling, being shorter the risk is less.

As for originals, the float almost certainly have been metal. In fact the old unit I have has a metal float, could be galvanized.  The unit is a Smith's one but certainly not for a Herald/Vitesse tank, as mentioned earlier.

[johny]

15 minutes ago, Chris A said:

May not be directly related but in the same vane, off centre unit but in your example far more of a problem as it can't be fitted. Out of interest which side of the arm is the float when the base plate is the correct way up?

Surely Pimps item is exactly the same as yours Chris? It certainly looks the same to me even down to connecting wire although why it didnt fit a Vitesse while yours does in your Herald is a mystery...

[Pimp my Vit]

'Out of interest which side of the arm is the float when the base plate is the correct way up'

Sorry Chris I can't remember the answer to the above question, but you're correct that the last one that worked had a much smaller float and it was positioned central.

[johny]

38 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Even though it is on the side that could cause fouling, being shorter the risk is less.

Chris, the float can be installed either way with no change in the function of the sender. When I had my original sender out for repair I installed the float the incorrect way round and it took me a few removals before I realised why it was snagging on the side of my Vitesse tank. Changed it round and off I went...

[Chris A]

57 minutes ago, johny said:

Surely Pimps item is exactly the same as yours Chris? It certainly looks the same to me even down to connecting wire although why it didnt fit a Vitesse while yours does in your Herald is a mystery...

I also thought they looked as if they could be the same, if so then it is down to whoever assembled the units having bought the main unit from the same manufacturer then fitting the plate. One got it right the other wrong

[Chris A]

23 minutes ago, johny said:

Chris, the float can be installed either way with no change in the function of the sender. When I had my original sender out for repair I installed the float the incorrect way round and it took me a few removals before I realised why it was snagging on the side of my Vitesse tank. Changed it round and off I went...

Yes I realised it can be reversed, but hadn't thought it was the cause of the problem. You clearly had what I now believe to be mine problem and changing it sorted it. I'm pretty sure 🤞the same result will result here.

It would have helped if I had paid attention to which way the float is mounted on the old unit.

[johny]

I reckon we can conclude that you have exactly same unit as Pimps as I think his photo shows both old and new units in the upside down position.

Also it looks very possible they will work with the float in the correct position but might be tight against the side of the fitting hole. However with the latter problem I wonder if a little judicious bending of the resistor box to mounting plate bracket wouldnt help which would then also move the float further away from the tankwall👍

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, johny said:

I reckon we can conclude that you have exactly same unit as Pimps as I think his photo shows both old and new units in the upside down position.

Also it looks very possible they will work with the float in the correct position but might be tight against the side of the fitting hole. However with the latter problem I wonder if a little judicious bending of the resistor box to mounting plate bracket wouldnt help which would then also move the float further away from the tankwall👍

Already said they appear to be the same except mine does fit correctly and can be, and in fact has been, screwed to the tank. When I next try it I am going to swap the float to the right hand side so it moves well away from the tank side. I'm not keen on the idea of bending the box part but may well give the arm a little bend to the left as it isn't at 90 degrees and slightly goes to the right, but only slightly.

[johny]

yes yours fits in the hole so no need to bend the bracket.

Im sure I read on one suppliers details that the arm 'may need bending to suit the application' so bend away. If mine doesnt last I'll probable get a Mini or Landrover replacement as theyre cheaper but will almost certainly need modifying....  

[Chris A]

4 hours ago, johny said:

Im sure I read on one suppliers details that the arm 'may need bending to suit the application'

19 hours ago, Chris A said:

That is 'the official' advice. If you look at R's site it does actually say it might be necessary. When I first reported my suspicions to the supplier their reply was : 

Bonjour, 

En effet en tordant un peu le bras pour modifier la position du flotteur vous aurez peut être une information plus fiable, à contrôler à l'essai. 

 

[Chris A]

"The Final Solution", he says optimistically.

Refitted float to left hand side, drained tank YET AGAIN (do you get the idea I'm getting fed up with doing that?) and swapped over the senders. The old one does have the float on the left, why hadn't I noticed that initially!!!

Started to add petrol and got he following readings:

I didn't refill with the old sender in as many increments. 

	READING
LITRES	OLD Sender	NEW sender
5	Clears top of red zone	Bottom of red zone
7,5 (1/4)	1 on 1/2 mark	Bottom of red zone
10		Just clear of bottom of red zone
12,5		Mid way in red zone
15 (1/2)	3/4 mark	Top of red zone
17,5		Just clear of red zone
20	Mid way 3/4 & F mark	Half way between 1/4 & 1/2
22,5		1/2
25		3/4
27,5		Half way between full mark & F
Full to brim	Mid way 3/4 & F mark	"F"

Neither of the senders are really accurate at all levels.

I keep a note in the glove box of the mileage reading at every fill up, always to full tank, and generally refill at around 150 mile intervals so not really any risk of running out. Plus it allows me to keep an accurate record of fuel consumption.

For the time being I'm going to leave it as is, at some point when bored I might give the float arm a bend to try and improve lower level accuracy.

I will send a message with photos of the new sender to the supplier and point out that the float needs to be on the left. Mine might have been an isolated case as the photo on their web site is correct.

[Chris A]

22 hours ago, Chris A said:

"The Final Solution", he says optimistically.

Did you really think I would leave it so inaccurate?

Took the sender out, after emptying the tank of course, and increased the amount of bend on the arm, it already had some.

I used my trusty Sender simulation board to confirm the direction the bend should go.

Got acceptable results first try.

[johny]

No excuses for running out of fuel now then!