Spitfire 4 new Rimmer loom issues

[MattE]

Morning all- my first post here, having bought a Spitfire 4 (mark one) with overdrive over the summer and discovered I’ve got much less of the car then I thought I had! Rimmer Bros have done well as a result… 

When I got the car, the body was not bolted to the chassis and the wiring loom was mainly disconnected. I have bought a new loom (rear, body, front lights and overdrive) as the old one looked like an electrical fire waiting to happen and didn’t so much bend but crunch.

The engine/car runs and drives, but wiring had been bodged just to get it moving. 
 

The first issue I have is wiring in the starter solenoid and coil- from the wiring diagram the solenoid should have an additional brown wire that goes to the horn system (from my reading of things…). That doesn’t seem to be present on the loom.!?
 

It also looks like the white should go to coil, but at present it doesn’t have a spade connector. (please ignore the bridging wire that p/o connected). 
 

If anybody could help clarify I would be very grateful!

 

kr Matt 

[johny]

well the coil is easily sorted as it just needs the small spade lug with hole in it to bolt to the terminal and take the white cable connection.

Then the starter solenoid looks to already have the required spade on the incoming main terminal (or if not would need another bolting to it) but the missing brown wire is more problematic. As you say this should supply the horn relay via an inline fuse but doesnt seem to be present in the new loom and quite possibly is replaced by a purple wire from the fuse box to the horn relay as per later models. To keep your wiring as close as possible to standard while using the easiest solution perhaps it would be best to feed this horn relay purple wire through an inlne fuse using a new brown wire from the incoming terminal of the main light switch? This would be easy to do under the dash and keeps things pretty close to original....

[thescrapman]

Are the horn relay wires still inside the car?

[DanMi]

As the Scrapman has said I would suspect that the horn relay wiring is still inside the car as the relay should be on the battery box strengthener and is not there. There should be 2 inline fuses, 1 for the horn and the 2nd for the main beam flash, both should be close to the hole. I would also advise putting the loom through grommets as it passes through the body.

[Colin Lindsay]

Is may be just one of those optical delusions, but the lower starter cable on the solenoid looks very close to the bodywork? 

I had thought that extra terminals for the coil are easy to find, until I went looking just now... but most coils come with too many spade terminals and I end up removing some. Someone is bound to sell them.

Re the horn... the brown wire must split further along the loom and change to purple, which then goes to the horn relay.

[Josef]

3 hours ago, johny said:

quite possibly is replaced by a purple wire from the fuse box to the horn relay as per later models.

This then makes me suspicious that perhaps the OP has not received the correct loom…

[johny]

Dont know if they make looms for every possible configuration but anyway probably too late to change to change it now. As Matt says there should be another brown wire by the starter solenoid that goes to an inline fuse where it changes to purple and supplies the horn relay. However if as stated the horn relay should be external then its wires are missing as well so have to find where they are (inside?) and mount the relay there plus carry out the additional wiring mod I previously suggested...

[MattE]

Thanks both- I’ve done a fair bit of work on my Porsche before, but no restoration stuff so full on car electrics is a bit of a steep learning curve!

I cannot find a horn relay, nor can I immediately work out what would even trigger the horn in car- the previous owner had several toggle switches mounted -seemingly randomly- on the panel between the main dash and steering column. Some of these were connected, some of them weren’t, and most of them seem to be in series connecting to the ignition. 
 

I am not going for super originality- at this stage. I’m going for functional and minimal fire risk. Once I’ve got everything going, I can then work backwards as need be. 
 

There is a pushbutton switch under the main – (see pictured) next to the heater switch, which I think I can probably re-purpose for anything.

 

there is a pushbutton switch under the main – (see pictured) next to the heater switch, which I think I can probably re-purpose for anything.

 

Coming off the control column are two bundles- one is clearly the main and dipped as well as what looks like a brown and red pair. 

there is a second, which involves the flashers et cetera.

obviously there are purples and purple and black, which of the horn on the new loom, and there was a red, which I presume is to do with ignition? I really wish the loom came with some sort of instructions of labelling for simpletons like me.

 

 

[MattE]

[johny]

The horn is normally controlled by a centre push in the middle of the steering wheel via a sliding contact to a purple and black wire which on some models operates a relay and others the horns directly...

[Pete Lewis]

what workshop manual are you using 

steves download covers Most Triumph Car Service manuals - Vitessesteve

you may not have a horn relay  many dont havethem      some are removed ,  some never had one (ive not checked specific model year diagrams )

red is generally  just side lights 

brown main power feed from the battery/fuse /solenoid used to power up the many .

purple is feed to horns and interior lighting 

green and colour  is indicators /fuel/temp etc.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Josef]

29 minutes ago, MattE said:

This should be, right to left, choke, heater valve, heater blower, washer fluid (originally a manual pump but I’d take a guess someone has fitted an electric one), wipers. Obviously you can do what you like, but screen washers are legally required so you’ll need them somewhere. What steering wheel do you have? Some aftermarket ones lack a horn push.

[MattE]

Thanks all- photo of steering wheel - no central moving part I can ID but might be seized…. There is no washer assembly in the car (as mentioned at the start, Rimmer Bros are doing quite well out to me) but I have read that on the one/4 the whole system is more difficult/different than all the later cars?

Using the following manuals 

[johny]

yes the centre of the steering wheel should push in to operate the horn. The whole assembly is just a push fit so get your finger nails in that joint and pull it off. Inside there should be a 'pencil' like spring loaded contact that fits through an interior hole in the steering wheel boss to rub against a track to make the circuit...

[Josef]

That’s 

1 hour ago, MattE said:

Rimmer Bros are doing quite well out to me

Just to note other, often more reasonably priced, suppliers are available… Canley Classics, TD Fitchett, James Paddock, to name a few. For used parts the few I’ve mentioned sometimes have some, the breakers Spitbitz and Spitfire Graveyard are good go-tos, Wins International often have used spares listed too. Then of course there’s eBay.