trigolf Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 Without wishing to rock the boat on this contentious subject, I can't help wondering how much either a trad ' sports' coil or later high output coil compensates for the smaller HV arriving at the resistive plug(s)? A lot of club cars are now using all sorts of coil makes/specs?🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 (edited) Don't worry it can't rock more than it already is... but it really shouldn't be contentious at all, it is clear as day that resistive plugs are capable of both working perfectly and causing problems, the difficulty in understanding the issue is the sheer number of variables at play but trying to narrow it down and provide some answers can only be a productive and positive thing to be welcomed by all ! Its no good reading on cigarette packets that "smoking kills" when in reality some it does others it doesn't, what we all actually need to know is who is likely to be susceptible and who isn't, and better still why ?... Edited October 3 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 But James, those packets don't say, "Smoking kills YOU". Smoking DOES kill! Maybe not you, or your 99 year old granny who smokes fifty a day, but it certainly, irrefutably kills a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 (edited) 24 minutes ago, JohnD said: But James, those packets don't say, "Smoking kills YOU". Smoking DOES kill! Maybe not you, or your 99 year old granny who smokes fifty a day, but it certainly, irrefutably kills a lot of people. There is never a perfect analogy but you get the point, I hope, that someone who wants to take great pleasure from smoking or driving a classic car wants and deserves to know if they are one of the unsusceptible ones and go ahead and do it, vice versa even more so ! Edited October 3 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 (edited) 43 minutes ago, trigolf said: I can't help wondering how much either a trad ' sports' coil or later high output coil compensates for the smaller HV arriving at the resistive plug(s)? A lot of club cars are now using all sorts of coil makes/specs?🤔 In my case its a real hodge podge, the coil is a period Magnetti Marelli from an Alfa Giulia, the leads and ignition are Accuspark that came with the car, the plugs are NGK BUR6ET and the timing is retarded to -4/5° ATDC, no idea of the specs but it works. Edited October 3 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 I think all bets are off these days as fuel has changed so much since our engines and fuel/ignition systems were designed. I have no idea whats going on now and Im not sure anyone has on old engines. Of course experimenting on a rolling road is the answer for your particular car but as thats unlikely in most cases all you can do is find what works best for it and report back. Think nowadays youve got to enjoy fiddling to get the best out of your car especially as it seems changes in fuel will keep coming😮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 3 minutes ago, johny said: I think all bets are off these days as fuel has changed so much since our engines and fuel/ignition systems were designed. I have no idea whats going on now and Im not sure anyone has on old engines. Of course experimenting on a rolling road is the answer for your particular car but as thats unlikely in most cases all you can do is find what works best for it and report back. Think nowadays you've got to enjoy fiddling to get the best out of your car especially as it seems changes in fuel will keep coming😮 You're probably right but the forum is there to help those in need so whats the best that can be done in this regard ? Maybe Pete is absolutely right in that non R suffix plugs are the safer bet even if they DO work perfectly for some ? And those with the necessary knowledge keep offering their explanations for why certain variables are to blame ? Anyway wine time beckons, its good night from me, no place here for "wine fog" 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 Its all only suggestions and theories though and whats right in one case might not be in another so you have to see what works for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) The explanation Wagger offered is particularly interesting because it is also straight forward to test in practice, Gav might have a point too about the coils but harder to test... I personally haven't been through many other threads so I'm not aware of just how "cloudy" this topic really is but from what you're all saying I presume there is no practical answer for someone looking for one ? Could it simply be : If in doubt stick to original spec plugs ( NGK BP6ES or equivalent ), NOT because resistive plugs won't work ( because for some they DO and are even an improvement ) but because historically they are less prone to issues. Edited October 4 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 22 minutes ago, James H said: If in doubt stick to original spec plugs ( NGK BP6ES or equivalent ), NOT because resistive plugs won't work ( because for some they DO and are even an improvement ) but because historically they are less prone to issues. That's just about it. Some time (years?) ago there was a thread running and it was widely reported that fake NGK plugs were widely available and there was a way of telling by looking at how the text was printed on the body of the plug. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 4 minutes ago, Dick Twitchen said: That's just about it. Some time (years?) ago there was a thread running and it was widely reported that fake NGK plugs were widely available and there was a way of telling by looking at how the text was printed on the body of the plug. Dick Thanks Dick, the mind boggles, its a minefield out there ! Thanks to all your help its time for me to run the car dry, fill her up with 95 octane, tolerate some pinging and hopefully save some pennies 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 it will never run at its best using 95ron mower fuel they are designed to run on 100+ 97/98 is the nearest normal for workshop manual timing settings whilst fuels have changed a lot since the 60s if you want the best performance use the book for 95 you need to retard and that gains more heat ....WHY Pete Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 here is the old posting about unglazed ceramics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: it will never run at its best using 95ron mower fuel they are designed to run on 100+ 97/98 is the nearest normal for workshop manual timing settings whilst fuels have changed a lot since the 60s if you want the best performance use the book for 95 you need to retard and that gains more heat ....WHY Pete Pete But because of all those changes Pete, no lead, no sulphur, ethanol and god knows what else now, in this case, there is no book☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 7 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: here is the old posting about unglazed ceramics Thanks Pete, I really do appreciate it and know exactly where you are coming from but you'll have to excuse me, so many variables just trigger my mind to go round in circles Practice beats theory so I'll try it and see, can easily go straight back to 98 octane and current setup if necessary ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 James, You diverted your own thread onto other problems, but are back to timing again. As I suggested, did you check the TDC markings on the pulley? Are they accurate? A shifted inertia ring could be the answer. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 Don't have a special tool for checking TDC via the piston but checked with something appropriate it seems correct. Yes all seems solid re the pulley but to be clear are you suggesting it could have shifted out of alignment but then stayed in its new position ? Cheers P.S. I'm a non smoker and you might have a 99 year old granny but I'm too old for that 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 I can imagine how it could give way and keep shifting position or just fly around completely but is it really possible to shift 10° and stay there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) I have a boxful of pullies that I used to develop my test rig, from my own collection and donated. It includes several pullies with shifted inertia rings, one by 60 degrees! (Not in picture) Yes, they can shift and stick! These are all aligned by the keyway: You "checked with something appropriate"? A screwdriver down the spark plug hole might be enough, but to check for a small deviation, a piston stop and a degree wheel on the crank nose is best for a small error.. Piston Stop Tool for sale | eBay Less than a tenner. Costs a bit more! Engine Timing Protractor for sale | eBay John Edited October 4 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 4 minutes ago, JohnD said: Yes, they can shift and stick! John, Thats incredible, ok will investigate further, thanks again James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 Johny hi, I've heard a lot of people who say 95 octane is fine, that 98 is preferable yes but 95 does the job adequately but I'll admit you're the first person I've heard suggesting it may even be advantageous ! Its around 20° ambient today and the car was dry so I've just filled up with 95 octane (left everything else as is for now, got to limit those variables) and taken it for a long spirited run including thrashing it up my favourite extended uphill route... Its too soon to tell but nonetheless it ran flawlessly, no pinging whatsoever. I'll run a tanks worth before refilling and advancing the timing to see how far I can get it and let you know 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 1 hour ago, JohnD said: A screwdriver down the spark plug hole might be enough, but to check for a small deviation, a piston stop and a degree wheel on the crank nose is best for a small error.. Could the timing marks also just be compared in relation to the locating notch on the pulley ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 if you have marks on the pulley they dont move the bonding of the front damper ring with the degree's on is what shifts as the rubber bond breaks down ,on our 1600 you could turn the ring with your fingers , Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 James I think its all up in the air as I used to need an octane booster additive with 95 to reduce pinking on standard timing and run on and now with 95 E5 I dont and its running better than ever. I know ethanol is an octane booster but the manufacturers are supposed to compensate for that in the mix. Ethanol is also supposed to burn slower so as I had popping from the exhaust on overrun Ive now advanced timing beyond the standard setting and this is reduced but without producing pinking🙂 With your timing marks unfortunately I dont think you can see the crankshaft key (if thats what you mean) to compare without removing the pulley bolt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 2 minutes ago, johny said: I think its all up in the air All I can do is try 3 minutes ago, johny said: crankshaft key (if thats what you mean) Yes thats what I meant, thinking it was fairly straightforward to just remove the pulley and check but maybe they arn't manufactured with such precision so the tools John mentions are indeed the only way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now