James H Posted October 2 Author Report Share Posted October 2 3 minutes ago, johny said: You could be right because although solenoid operated diaphragm pumps if the suction was blocked the solenoid could stay continually energised and overheat. A small air inlet would prevent this👍 Any idea if air in the system is actually an issue or can the carbs cope ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 2 Report Share Posted October 2 No thats why the carbs have float chambers to allow flow fluctuations and time for small amounts of air to come out before the fuel is used. Obviously theres a limit and you should find out where the air is coming from in case of leaks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 (edited) Makes perfect sense with their overflow/venting... so while its preferable to have no air in the supply you'll probably get away with some, but not too much. Worth keeping an eye on by anyone with a pump up front 👍 Edited October 3 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 most air induction into the fuel line on H & V is from poorly fitted and low grade hose on the short outlet above the tank hidden in the boot its often ignored or unknown but i would like a £ 1 for every time i come across this short hose with loose clips and knackered hoses sucks in air but being above the fuel head doesnt leak fuel much Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: most air induction into the fuel line on H & V is from poorly fitted and low grade hose on the short outlet above the tank hidden in the boot Poorly fitted indeed, I've come across hoses twisted closed from the reserve lever being used, and hoses being angled so acutely they've bent and so stopped the flow of fuel. A right-angled take-off at this point would solve many problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 On 02/10/2024 at 11:28, James H said: Gav hi, at a frustrating cost I tried four different pumps on the bulkhead, including the one I ended up using successfully in the boot, and all produced the air in the system shown in the video below. It has to be lower than the tank and it doesn't matter further along the line if the filter and route is above the carbs as they push like gems ! The setup I have produces no air at all and again the same pump in the engine compartment (or possibly even high up in the boot) does produce air Fuel issue.MP4 6.94 MB · 0 downloads That is not air. It is gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 4 minutes ago, SpitFire6 said: That is not air. It is gas. That never occurred to me, hmmm If I still had the other pumps I'd try it with water as Johny mentioned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 i always find it strange that the AC pumps triumph designed /fitted only lasted 50 years any "must haves haves" always come with the associated headaches a proven conundrum Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 I think its more Pete that the after market mechanical pumps weve been offered to replace the original AC jobbies have quite often produced too high an output pressure so owners have gone to electric pumps to try to solve the problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 The previous owner of mine left the mechanical one on there when he converted to electric and I believe its the original so if the Huco I've put on does ever leave me stranded at least I'll have something good to fall back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 Looking at yours James I dont think its original as the inlet and outlet connections went into the body while yours has the outlet there but the inlet as part of the top, if it wasnt missing. As I say the PO might have had problems with it so decided to go electric.... You can get or make a small metal plate to fit to the block in its place and so not have the pump still being operated unnecessarily by the cam👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 5 minutes ago, johny said: Looking at yours James I dont think its original as the inlet and outlet connections went into the body while yours has the outlet there but the inlet as part of the top, if it wasnt missing. As I say the PO might have had problems with it so decided to go electric.... You can get or make a small metal plate to fit to the block in its place and so not have the pump still being operated unnecessarily by the cam👍 Shame its not the original then but I have the missing part in a box of spares in the boot and genuinely had it in the back of my mind to fall back on it if necessary but a plate would look tidier for sure, thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 It might be missing a valve out of the hole you can see in the top, not sure. When the engines running you should be able to feel it sucking through it - unfortunately I have seen photos of a cam with a groove worn in it from operating an after market pump lever as they can be a lot thinner than the originals☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 3 Author Report Share Posted October 3 1 minute ago, johny said: It might be missing a valve out of the hole you can see in the top, not sure. When the engines running you should be able to feel it sucking through it - unfortunately I have seen photos of a cam with a groove worn in it from operating an after market pump lever as they can be a lot thinner than the originals☹️ Thanks, i'll just plate it off and be done with it, well spotted 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) In the name of complete transparency but at the risk of looking like a complete knob-end I've just gone out to change up to the 82° stat and discovered that this entire summer I've mistakingly put the 88° winter stat in... in my defense the markings are very faint So whats going on, this changes things, how is this car running so well and so cool in this climate ?? If anyone thinks they might have an explanation but need more info/pics let me know Edited October 4 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 People seem to think that by using a lower temperature thermostat their engine will run cooler but this will only happen if the cooling system has excess capacity. What I mean is that for a thermostat to control the coolant temperature it must run partically closed so it can open more if the temperature starts to rise. This means the radiator has to be so good that it can still cool sufficiently with a reduced flow of coolant through it and I dont think in summer our cooling systems have this spare capacity. Therefore the coolant is normally operating above the temperature rating of the thermostat so it is fully open and its rating is irrelevant. You might say well in that case as soon as you hit a hill the engine temperature will start to rise uncontrollably but the system is inherently stable because as the coolant temperature rises its difference relative to the cooling air temperature increases so more heat energy is removed in the radiator and the temperature settles to a new level👍 To summarise in a hot environment the thermostat rating makes a small difference to our engine warm up speeds but little else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 if you look down the filler of a hot engine you will see the ebb and flow across the top of the rad tubes as the thermostat modulates they do open and close all the time its not just Open when the settings are reached as colder coolant enters from the cooled radiator flow the stat does close down until the target is close and it reopens this goes on repeatedly all the time we used to test stats returned to within 0.1C and the test simulates changes in flow temperature I have the Tee Shirt Ha! a stat thats been boiled is now generally going to be inaccurate best swap it out Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 I know thats how its meant to work Pete but do you think that happens in our engines on a hot day driving along? My temperature gauge goes up when engines working hard and if the thermostat was doing its job I would expect it to be more stable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, johny said: I dont think in summer our cooling systems have this spare capacity Well I'm here with the proof, albeit not the answer, that it can work 👍 Don't know how many Vitesses are ungaraged daily drivers, presumably not many, but it makes for good testing of theories ! Could be a nice little earner running a remote test mule, should at least cover my wine expenses, hmmm... Edited October 5 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 So flushing is typical and the stat might be of minimal relevance... Others presumably have Kenlowes with issues but have they got it that close to the rad ? Are coolants generic ? I thought they were but could that be the explanation Or is it still most likely down to the refurbed rad ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) Kenlowes are fine, but a radiator with an integrated fan can be more compact. I have one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313372577154 It's from/for a Honda Civic. I've had to have the lower inlet rewelded to a slightly different angle, and done some mods to the thermostat housing for the differently located top outlet, but it works well. Edited October 5 by JohnD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 (edited) 7 hours ago, JohnD said: Kenlowes are fine, but a radiator with an integrated fan can be more compact. Looks a great bit of kit John, would you feel confident with it over here in 45° midday traffic ? Its interesting that the rear of the rad is only exposed to the fan, can't find any pics of the front, I presume its fully exposed... Edited October 5 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 Yes, James! I was at Kop Hill climb six weeks ago, and lost the electric water pump due to a loose connection. It overheated in the queue to go up the hill. Second run after sorting the pump was trouble free. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 5 Author Report Share Posted October 5 7 minutes ago, JohnD said: Yes, James! I was at Kop Hill climb six weeks ago, and lost the electric water pump due to a loose connection. It overheated in the queue to go up the hill. Second run after sorting the pump was trouble free. John My question was sincere in order to understand the key factors involved for best cooling so I may hopefully repeat it for other cars, despite how it sounds I'm sure you're not implying you had 45° in Buckinghamshire 😉 Of course the pump had to go while queuing at an event, cruel luck but good job sorting it 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, James H said: Looks a great bit of kit John, would you feel confident with it over here in 45° midday traffic ? Its interesting that the rear of the rad is only exposed to the fan, can't find any pics of the front, I presume its fully exposed... Yes its about the best set up you can get and what modern cars now have. You restrict air flow through the rad a little when driving along (some designs have flaps in the shroud to allow air through) but gain at low speeds because when the fan starts none of its air flow can escape and must all pass through the rad core😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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