JohnD Posted October 5 Report Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, James H said: I'm sure you're not implying you had 45° in Buckinghamshire 😉 45 degrees? That's cold fir an engine, C or F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) 10 hours ago, johny said: Yes its about the best set up you can get and what modern cars now have. You restrict air flow through the rad a little when driving along (some designs have flaps in the shroud to allow air through) but gain at low speeds because when the fan starts none of its air flow can escape and must all pass through the rad core😀 Cheers Johny 👍 had no idea, apart from the classics the wife drives a little 206 hatchback, its as modern as I've ever worked on and theres none of that tech going on ! Do they go hand in hand then with an electric water pump ? Edited October 6 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 10 hours ago, JohnD said: 45 degrees? That's cold fir an engine, C or F. Keep up John 😉 45°C, what used to be the exception over here is now a few weeks of the year. Its honestly becoming insufferable but the car seems to cope better than I. This year in said heat I did several trips with family/friends to the top of various local perched villages including Gordes (pictured below), 4 up in the car (somehow off the bump stops) and in stop/start tourist traffic no probs, also thrashed it up my favourite hill climbs just to test the theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 And dont tell me James the fan hardly came on😮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) 33 minutes ago, johny said: And dont tell me James the fan hardly came on😮 O no, it comes on, you can't miss it ! Like I said earlier on, 4 up the temp rises but doesn't overheat, thrashing it uphill alone it stays put... So is the overheating issue with 6s in general actually more of a purist thing with modern tech more or less solving the problem for those happy to go that route ? Just trying to understand the reality of the situation, cheers Edited October 6 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Its quite variable with the subject being a bit of a hot potato😀 Some people dont seem to get a problem and swear by the original mechanical fan while others are stressed in slow moving traffic and have gone to powerful electric ones. It leads into another controversial subject which is fuel vaporisation and poor running which some get and others dont and against which different measures such as electric pumps and heat shields are used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 1 minute ago, johny said: a bit of a hot potato😀 Funny... ok the fog is clearing, not... 😀 I've had other classics like beetles, minis and an alfa but they all drove like classics. I suspect the Sprint being stock will leave me stranded too so who would have thought the Vitesse of all cars would be the dependable one driving like and keeping up with modern traffic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 8 minutes ago, johny said: It leads into another controversial subject which is fuel vaporisation and poor running which some get and others dont and against which different measures such as electric pumps and heat shields are used... Thats why I mentioned my fuel setup in the same thread as it seems to work, who knows then, maybe I'll wakeup soon from a wonderful dream to a nightmare reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Not saying it's fuel vaporisation but moved one of the glass type filters from the tank outlet to just before the carburettors when replacing the flexible hoses with gates barricade. After, if I stopped briefly the car was a bugger to restart, moved the filter back to the boot and problem disappeared, classic if it ain't broke don't fix it. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 and never discount temp senders, gauges , voltage stabilisers and battery /charge voltages can all play havoc with the brain when the gauge is telling lies Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Ah! 45 degrees of weather, not engine temp. Living on "this sceptred isle, this blessed plot" still comes "with advantages". It was a warm breezy sunny day, gorgeous! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 2 hours ago, 68vitesse said: if it ain't broke don't fix it. Paul hi, ain't it true ! For me buying into a car with problems to fix it took me ages to find a position for the filter where it wouldn't contribute to air in the system, it ended up where you see it now, there was no science to it on my part, just trial and error... I need to see things to believe 'em so for me it was the submerged pipe in a jar trick as a reference, whether I was barking up the wrong tree I don't know but it works, starts on the button hot or cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 39 minutes ago, JohnD said: Ah! 45 degrees of weather, not engine temp. Living on "this sceptred isle, this blessed plot" still comes "with advantages". It was a warm breezy sunny day, gorgeous! Ah yes, and you have what they refer to as "seasons" over there if I remember well. We have blistering heat or bitter cold over here, picturesque though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 If anyone reading this does happen to also have positive experience with a Vitesse in a similar climate please do share, would probably help clarify things ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Dont know about 45º but my Vitesse handles summer touring in Southern Spain. Its got the same aluminium Honda Civic radiator as JohnD plus a high power manually operated Spal fan direct fixed to the core. The gauge goes up and down with the most worrying being long hot mountain climbs as then theres no point using the fan because the air flow already exceeds what it can achieve. However even though so far the set up has not let me down I am considering some further upgrades😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) Trust me you'd know about 45°, I would have thought Southern Spain would be more than comparable... Never having had a manually operated fan I'm not sure what you mean by "then theres no point using the fan because the air flow already exceeds what it can achieve" On long hot mountain climbs when you're seeing the temp rise a mechanical fan matching engine speed would be effective and a thermostat controlled electronic fan would surely be on too, no ? Do you mean over a certain speed fans are simply redundant ? If thats the case wouldn't it be counterintuitive to have an enclosed rad design or because they are aluminium casings are they cooling regardless ? Also just a thought, even though I can't think of an explanation why it would be the case, could daily driving a car make it less susceptible to overheating issues ? Apologies for so many questions but you have a knack for explaining things clearly Johny 👍 Edited October 6 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 By manual fan I mean I switch it on rather than have a thermostatic switch do it and yes once youre travelling at anything more than about 5 miles an hour the air being pushed through the radiator is greater than any fan mechanical or electric can do so neither will help. Fans with or without shrouds are only to cool when stationary or travelling very slowly so if your car overheats while driving faster the solution lies elsewhere... Does your car need much topping up of the coolant reservoir bottle and does the level in it go up and down depending on engine temperature? Wish my wife agreed with you about my explanations🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) 17 minutes ago, johny said: By manual fan I mean I switch it on rather than have a thermostatic switch do it and yes once youre travelling at anything more than about 5 miles an hour the air being pushed through the radiator is greater than any fan mechanical or electric can do so neither will help. Fans with or without shrouds are only to cool when stationary or travelling very slowly so if your car overheats while driving faster the solution lies elsewhere... Does your car need much topping up of the coolant reservoir bottle and does the level in it go up and down depending on engine temperature? Wish my wife agreed with you about my explanations🤣 I realised what you meant by a manual fan, please, I'm not a complete failure 😉 So if thats the case regarding fans then hill climbs aren't actually a benchmark for a cooling system, only sitting in traffic is ? Edited October 6 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 1 minute ago, James H said: I realised what you meant by a manual fan, please, I'm not a complete failure ! So if thats the case regarding fans then hill climbs aren't actually a benchmark for a cooling system, only sitting in traffic is ? That first bit is exactly what my wife says! Well cooling effectiveness is obviously over the whole driving cycle and you can have great cooling on the move but problems stationary and vice versa. However most complaints on here are related to the latter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 17 minutes ago, johny said: Does your car need much topping up of the coolant reservoir bottle and does the level in it go up and down depending on engine temperature? Initially I kept topping it up to the midway point as per the book before realising it wants to sit near the bottom and has stayed at the same level ever since, so now no topping up necessary which would suggest alot of expansion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 8 minutes ago, James H said: Initially I kept topping it up to the midway point as per the book before realising it wants to sit near the bottom and has stayed at the same level ever since, so now no topping up necessary which would suggest alot of expansion... Yes the reservoir is an area where some owners have modified their cooling systems in an effort to reduce coolant loss. They go to the design used in modern cars where theres a pressurised header tank mounted at the highest point in the system which is usually by the bulkhead due to lack of space but this does require additional long pipe runs☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 Not really on my Vitesse, I have a 10mm Ali pipe going from the top outlet of a header tank to a tapping in the thermostat housing, the lower outlet of the header tank goes into a T on the heater return. Along with an Ali rad and a Spal sucker fan on a thermo switch it works fine. This was done when I built the 2.5 engine and did some tests for hot spots and found the top of the engine not getting adequate cooling, the header tank is the highest point, mounted near the Brake/Clutch masters. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 I always wonder if you can fill the system in a reasonable time from the header tank Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 I still have the Rad cap so I fill the system from there but it never opens to expand into an external bottle as before. In hot conditions at standing the gauge will move to 3/4 but when the fan kicks in drops again, I mentioned before I tested 3 different senders from different suppliers and found up to 40% differences in resistance between them. I think a digital thermometer is a more reliable reading of what`s going on. You can see it in my Avatar though I don`t know how to make it bigger.(that`s what MY Wife says). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, johny said: Well cooling effectiveness is obviously over the whole driving cycle and you can have great cooling on the move but problems stationary and vice versa. However most complaints on here are related to the latter.... Hang on so... ...on a standard well tuned engine with a working water pump its the fan/rad combo that dictates cooling effectiveness at idle so if thats a non issue and the car doesn't overheat regardless of ambient air temp/weather/climate what could then potentially produce overheating issues at speed under load other than a flock of birds embedded in the grill ? Is it feasible that at idle the fan does most of the job with the rad design being less significant, whereas while under load the rad design becomes the more critical for general airflow ? This again would suggest that a "solid" rad while very effective for the coolant system would also restrict airflow directly to the compartment / bloc which on a modern car maybe isn't an issue but on a hot running 6 maybe it is ? Edited October 6 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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