Front Suspension Lowering

[Henry Boler]

Well, I'll have a look at the camber this weekend anyway as I thing it is positive at the moment. And extra shims will add weight to the front end  .

 

Are there any views on the Canley Spring option at all?

 

Henry

[Henry Boler]

Also, shorter springs are easier to adjust later with spacers, long ones aren't...

[GT6M]

All the cars really should be running 1 - 1.5 neg camber on frunts

Unlless that is, ye want to wear the ootside edges off,

as the wheels set at 1-2 deg Positive, go to aboot 3-5 degs Positive when wheels turned

 

As JD says, that was for olde tyres

butt, for some strange reason, they still set the last Spitty ones positive too.

 

400lbers - 1 inch compressionee for 400 lb

 

but ont car, at an inclination, as the spring is, its a diff ball game

poundage goes well down

 

Clives OK,ish 480 on a Spitty, will be OK for a GT, as its got moer weight owa frunt wheels

 

M

[Henry Boler]

Looks like it's all pretty well confirmed then!

 

I've no idea what I did with all the spare shims, gotta keep hunting.

 

Car is definitely on positive front camber though at the moment.

 

Right old dark art this suspension malarky!

 

H

[JohnD]

Suspension tuning is indeed an art, but not dark!

It's a continual compromise, because you change something for the better and something else gets worse.

But be assured that Triumph suspension, the front at least, is the best there is, as it offers so much in adjustment!

The back is a different story!

 

John

[dave.vitesse]

I agree with John on the front suspension.

[Henry Boler]

I guess it's just a case of putting some decent time to it! Getting very close now with the rear suspension. The latest revision on the brackets is working very nicely now, even with a full car and heavy people!!

 

Also, Markus has very kindly sent me a set of front springs he had spare to try out and see what the results are like, so I'm looking forward to doing that!

 

Henry

[Henry Boler]

Okay, so the springs Markus sent are now fitted.

 

They are much shorter than the ones I took out, I had to fit spacers to get them to work and they don't require spring compressors like the others do for installation.

 

Having said that, Markus reckons they are 500 lb springs, they are perfectly comfortable to drive with, the car looks perfect now height-wise, the front matches the rear ride height. It drives fine, no fouling on anything anywhere and the full lock seems to work better, steering is easier at full lock. Need to sort the tracking now though as she is a little unstable.

​

I would post a photo, but apparently the forum is having a bad day...

 

Henry

[Pete Lewis]

nice to hear of a good result

 

happy driving 

 

Pete

[Henry Boler]

 

Please excuse how filthy and neglected she is!

[GT6M]

Good to see ye think its OK,,   seems I was right,!!!

 

to me, car looks like it could go a inch lower on frunt

as at speed, it will rise up due to under flow of air,

 

As for camber, mek yer self one of thee,s thingys,

v easy t,doo, ,  just get a block of Ply board,about 10 mm thick,  and have it cut

to the wheel rim lip size.

 

then, cut a wee groove into the top for the nylon string to fit into

then wid a protractor, put on  a scale of uto 3 or 4 degs either side

 

then, extend the lines with a ruler to the bottom,

and here, put on the lines that the sting wid a weight on end will read off against

 

Only need a   1/4 inch line at bottom, , and ontop of that, put on yer numbers or figs

this wee thingy has served me well for yers,

note this been modded for 15 inch wheels, as its got an extended bit on one side

 

M

 

[Henry Boler]

Yeah, it could go lower, it's funny as I expected the car to drop on the floor when I lowered it down onto the new springs!

 

I like the idea of the camber setting board! Quirky! Just got to find somewhere level to do it!

 

Henry

[Pete Lewis]

most camber testing equipment will tell you if you cant get the floor  quite  level  measure the  sum total of both sides and halve it.

 

 

if that helps

 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

Good to hear the replacement spring have solved the problem. I agree with Pete re the camber. From past experience try three shims all around to start with.

 

dave

[Henry Boler]

I will go on another shim hunt toonight then and see if I have more luck than last time!

[daverclasper]

Good to hear the replacement spring have solved the problem. I agree with Pete re the camber. From past experience try three shims all around to start with.

 

dave

my Vitesse has one shim,each wishbone/chassis bracket on off side and tyre wear is normal. Nearside has two and is wearing outer edge of tyre more.

 

also the top outer edge of this tyre is about 1/2" prouder to the wheel arch than tother (could be different body alignment, chassis twist, though nothing visually wrong on chassis and front and rear sections of main rails are showing level to each other  .

 

Haven't done camber check yet, but going off tyre wear I guess I could fit yet more shims to off side to correct any excessive positive camber, though, this seems excessive?

 

Car runs in a straight line.

 

Any help great would be great please.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Casper]

If you want to become an instant expert you could do no better than getting a Courier CD (from Club Shop) and reading the very interesting series by Carl Heinlein in Courier 158 (Aug 1993), 159 (Sep 1993) and 160 (Oct 1992).

 

Worth a read.

 

C.

 

See thread

http://forum.tssc.org.uk/index.php?/topic/468-getting-the-tracking-done/?hl=alignment&do=findComment&comment=3461

[Henry Boler]

Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

I spent hours turning the workshop upside down and cannot find the shims I was after.

 

However...

I found these...

[GT6M]

Yip, thats them Enry

Aim for 1.5 degs neg

 

wid yer stiffer springs, camber wont change as much on bump

as sprigs will stop it in bump moer than a softer,n

 

M

[GT6M]

Questionee,    my Vitesse has one shim,each wishbone/chassis bracket on off side and tyre wear is normal. Nearside has two and is wearing outer edge of tyre more.

 

 Anser............If ye got unequal shims, then good chance ye got unequal camber

 

wearing outer edge, this could be tracking issue, caused by rack no being centralised,

this meks the adjustable track arms diff lenths, so wheels turn at diff angles

also, effects of bump steer will come into play on one side moer than other,

check  to see if same amount of threads are on each side

 

 

 

 

Questionee,    also the top outer edge of this tyre is about 1/2" prouder to the wheel arch than tother (could be different body alignment, chassis twist, though nothing visually wrong on chassis and front and rear sections of main rails are showing level to each other

 

.Anser .............. this could be body alighment, IE body off set to one side a wee bit

also, camber, really need t,chack yer camber sett,ns.

 

 

 

 Questionee,   Haven't done camber check yet, but going off tyre wear I guess I could fit yet more shims to off side to correct any excessive positive camber, though, this seems excessive?

 

Anse ..............Positive camber will wear yer outer edges away , period

 

esp if yer drivin wid any sort of spirited  driving,!!!

no only that, butt yer wheels, { due to susp design } will gain moer  + Positive camber as yer wheels turn into a corner

 

Go turn yer wheels to 1/2 to 3/4  full lock,  look at the outer wheel, its gon weel into mega positive territory noo aint it,

 

no only that, but the set up aint got proper Ackerman , this shows on yer outer wheel gettin ..Pushed sideways,  as yer cars going forads,

 

Go try an push yer car wid full lock on, see if it moves forads easy.

Then watch someone try an move yer car forads on full lock, whilst under power.

whilst yer watching outer wheel,  

Wots happening !!!!

 

It will go straight if trackings OKish,

butt, remember this,  If one wheel is oot,

then yer car will pull t,one side

Butt, yer steering wheel counters this, an both wheels end up straitgh ahead,ish

 

this is akin to wot was said above aboot rack no central

As wen yer steerings turned, yer wheels turn at diff angles, follow,!!!

 

 

ye really need t,get yer car set up,

and wen ye doo, mek sure its  LOADED up,

as  tracking, camber settins, wid an wid oot load do vary

so set it wid oot loaded, then yer settings wen loaded will be no good,

 

Most garages will set the tracking  / camber  wrong, thru being ignorant of suspensionee movements.!!!

And, wen its set up, then  not  to OE specs,unless yer a die in the heart  Purist type,!!!

 

M

[JohnD]

1.5 negative is good start point, but everyones driving style is different. EG Under steer > more negative.

OR, measure tread temperature asap after a spirited drive (stop, leap out and measure)

OR, longer term, measure tread wear.

 

The objective is to get the whole width of the tread working, not just the edges.

 

But evertything in suspension is relative. Pressure, toe, ARB stiffness are all adjustable too.

 

John

[Pete Lewis]

it takes a lot of miles to get wrong camber to wear a tyre where as tracking will scrub the edges off very much quicker 

and is the main error that destroys tyre life quickly

 

the track rods from the centre of the sperical to the centre of the TRE is shown as 221.36mm   8.715"

so theres some 'wheres the centre' guesswork here hidden under the gaitor, if you tape measure from the spherical back stop (inside the gaitor) then add 1.42"

but both rods should be same length. if you turn the outer wheel to 20deg in the inner wheel should produce the same angle ie theres no toe out on turns they stay parallel up to 20deg  then ackerman creeps in.

 

have a look at http://forum.tssc.org.uk/index.php?/topic/2009-toe-in-the-easy-way/

[Dave the tram]

My mk3 was also too high at the front but fitting gaz shockers all round (all adjustable firmness, front also for height) solved this. Front near to lowest setting was perfect, although might up them a bit as I exit my drive over a hump that now just scrapes an exhaust clamp!

Dave