No Spark at plugs - Vitesse Mk2

[Paul H]

Hi - just reassembled  fuel system after refurbishment of piping , tubing and fuel tank 

 

The only electrics work ive done is to reconnect the earth lead on the distributor face plate as it had broken free . The distributor has previously been converted to electronic with accuspark conversion 

 

The issue is there is no spark at the plugs ,

There is no spark from the main feed into the distributor ie no output from the coil  .

I have power to the coil .

Ive tested the coil and with a volt meter using Ohms range between the positive and inner coil I got a reading of 9 which i think stands for 9000 something

I have tried a spare coil and still the same ie no spark .

 

What further tests can I do to identify the issue 

 

Any assistance appreciated 

 

Paul 

 

 

 

 

[dave.vitesse]

Paul, As you have power to the coil have you tried the to obtain a spark from the coil only to earth as the roto arm or dizzy cap or HT leads may be defective.

 

If still no spark then it sounds like the point side of the circuit is the problem. Either - points are not closing or opening, points require cleaning, the capacitor is defective, the lead between the coil and dizzy is open circuit.

 

Dave

[Paul H]

Paul, As you have power to the coil have you tried the to obtain a spark from the coil only to earth as the roto arm or dizzy cap or HT leads may be defective.

 

If still no spark then it sounds like the point side of the circuit is the problem. Either - points are not closing or opening, points require cleaning, the capacitor is defective, the lead between the coil and dizzy is open circuit.

 

Dave

Hi Dave , thanks for your input there is no spark from the coil so following your theory the dizzy is the source of the problem This has been converted to electronic with Accuspark conversion before I purchased the car 

 

In my naivety I didnt realise the coil output was controlled by the distributor . This points ( pardon the pun ) to the electronic conversion failing -

 

Does this logic make sense ?

 

Thanks

 

Paul  

[dave.vitesse]

Hello Paul, when the points open this causes a brake in the LT current in the coil and that produces a spark. So yes good pun, its the bits that where removed to fit the electronic ignition need to be refitted and set up. points, capacitor and the dizzy side connecting tag of the points.

 

Dave 

[dave.vitesse]

Hello Paul, Sorry I though you had already removed the electronic ignition. If it is still installed then check it is connected to the coil correctly as per the makers instruction.

 

Dave 

[Paul H]

Hi Dave the Accuspark is connected correctly so assume I must have fried it when I repaired the earth tag . Pretty sure I have a set of points & condenser to check this theory 

 

Paul 

[dave.vitesse]

Paul, No don't think so. If you have earthed the face plate it should be OK.  What would fry the module is if its coil - negative lead was connected to the supply voltage.

 

To test the coil - If you disconnect the module completely and then intermittently earth the coil - negative tag, with the supply on, you should get a spark from the coil. Not a large one as there is no capacitor.

 

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

And if you put a small bulb between the coil neg and earth when the dizzy triggers it will light the bulb

just the same as if it has contact points

 

is the unit being fed with 12v and the leccy units need to earth via the base plate

So must be a link to the coil neg and feed from 12v

 

check the ohms between the two 12v terminals 12v 3 ohms

balasted 1.5 ohms

 

As its a vitesse with no balast , its got to be a 3 ohm coil.

if per chance its a 1.5 ohm coil then the doubled current often fries the pick up

 

pete

[AidanT]

Hi

 

Just to check, you do have two wires from the electronic ignition wired to the coil one on the positive, one on the negative?

 

Aidan

[Paul H]

UPDATE . Followed all the tests , advice above and no spark . The coil is ok so logically the accuspark has failed . One possible explanation is that the gap had been closed when I repaired the earth plug . The accuspark hologram logo has changed colour at the edges indicating heat. I can't say this for definite as took the dizzy apart several times

 

I purchased an accuspark distributor kit at stonleigh which included new Delco 6 distributor with electronic ignition, coil, leads & plugs . Fitted this today and I have spark so close to firing up .

 

I have replaced the fuel pump which is smaller than the original so guess this is a modern aftermarket model. I have fuel in the pump but despite operating the petrol pump lever I can't get the fuel to the carbs , so guess there is an airlock some where . What's the best approach ?

NB The fuel tank has been refurbished and new rubber r9 tubing replacing the original perished pipe. There is fuel in the tank and its visible at the filter I've added in the boot area . Just above the fuel filter I've added an manual switch which will act a increased security or making the fuel filter change easier

 

Paul

[Pete Lewis]

the hand prime wont work if the pump lever is on cam  you need to turn the cam half a turn and try again.

 

some after market pumps ....dont

 

some float needles like to stay shut.

 

did you try with the carb feed open to air. ?

 

if you take the pump off there should be a well defined pahp pahp when you operate the cam lever , and the valves open close 

 

try sucking out a jam jar may prove the pump.

 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Disconnect the fuel line at the carbs, stick it in a jam jar and turn over the engine. No fuel? Disconnect the fuel line at the pump outlet and repeat. No fuel? Then it's the wrong pump! I had this with a new one, I was assured it was correct for my model but, it didn't work, the arm didn't reach the cam. Also could be a blockage between pump and carb, Pete's nightmare, GIANT rubber slivers!

[Paul H]

Hi Doug and Pete . Thanks for advice , disconnected fuel pipe by carbs no fuel spurt when turning over. So removed pipe prior to pump , added a section of clear plastic pipe and sucked fuel eventually came through , plus loads of air bubbles so guess their was an airlock somewhere , reconnected and turned engine and petrol came out of the pipe by the carb and all over the engine , I had forgotten the jam jar

 

So now I have fuel and spark, won't fire up at the minute so need to make sure timing is roughly right , will timing light work just on the starter ???? Then check carbs , float chamber, needle valves . I think it's likely to be timing as squirted carb cleaner direct in with no effect

Thanks for advice - appreciated

Paul

[dougbgt6]

Paul, I've had two issues with tank to pump pipework. One was sludge periodically blocking the fuel line. I got rid of it by dyno-rodding the pipe with nylon strimmer cord. The second was a fibre washer fallen into the tank and occasionally  getting sucked over the fuel outlet and blocking the flow.

[Pete Lewis]

Dont need strobe,, as in other posts small bulb between coil neg and earth

as soon as the electronic or points trigger open the bulb will light, then look for timing markers.

marcus suggested test probe and croc clip , you know the small screwdriver tester

 

any more fuel probs check the hoses in boot or undenesth are not sucking air

The pump should have enough oomph to pull the fuel through an empty pipework..

Pete

[Paul H]

Dont need strobe,, as in other posts small bulb between coil neg and earth

as soon as the electronic or points trigger open the bulb will light, then look for timing markers.

marcus suggested test probe and croc clip , you know the small screwdriver tester

 

any more fuel probs check the hoses in boot or undenesth are not sucking air

The pump should have enough oomph to pull the fuel through an empty pipework..

Pete

Thanks Pete , WBL281H  fired up at last , a bit uncertain but 30 mins later started again which bodes well  - so will get the strobe when shes outside in a couple of weeks .

 

Im using the new fuel pump though totally unimpressed with quality . The sealing rubber ring has expanded by 20% already and is a pig to put back without it getting trapped  . When I get a chance I will be reburbing the old AC unit and putting this back.

 

The forward CDSE carb is still leaking by the choke assembly despite cleaning and reassembling with a new gasket yesterday - Ive attached a pic to show where its leaking - Its leaked since day 1 when purchased from Turner Carbs , returned for correction with no change - With start up with choke the leak is evident with fuel on a rag when wiped over . With the engine hot the leak is a minor weep and hardly noticeable - The pic shows the metal faces are dirty , could I clean this up with a fine grade of wet n dry or soak in fuel , acetone 

Again any advice welcomed and at last some progress 

 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

^{you can refinish the ally faces with a fine 1200 wet dry , some oil on a flat peice of glass or flat surface,, just polish it up a little}

 

^{if this keeps leaking its fit a gaket or seaer to keep the fuel in the starter valve not on the floor} 

^{most books dont show this in any detail}

^{but thats in the wet zone , so seal it up ,}

^Pete

[dave.vitesse]

There is not normally a gasket on this part of the choke assembly. As Pete said clean up should help, plus use some sealer. But be careful not to get sealer inside.

 

Dave

[Waynebaby]

Paul,

 

If it is any comfort I had a similar issue with the front carb on my CDSE 150s too. It dripped on choke and then dried up when the choke was pushed in. It was doing this when I put the car away for the winter but oddly enough the problem has gone away during the lay-up. No amount of cleaning seemed to do anything so I've no idea why it's decided to heal up of it's own accord! 

 

Wayne

[dave.vitesse]

Sometimes they do seal up which may be due to the brown stuff you find in the bottom of the float chamber. Additives? Why no gasket was fitted who knows, but a small amount of sealer may help.

 

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

http://zenithcarb.co.uk/zencdcdsseries/?___store=zenith

this says a lot but no help on your to have or have not gaske

 

some starter valves are air bled rather than fuel metered I was just dreaming a bit

 

pete