Repairing J type Solenoid.

[Graham C]

Hello

I have manged to sort out my OD due to a faulty solenoid. I replaced it with an old one which I had in store.

Following additional research I came across a comment stating that good solenoids rattling, which is interesting as the good one does and the bad one did not. However the bad one  could be activated if connected to a battery.

So with regards to the bad one, besides removing the circlip and replacing the O ring on the shuttle can I strip the solenoid down and clean it out?

If so the body is held in by pins, do these need to be drilled out or can these be pulled out as they are not flush with the body housing?

Graham

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

all the books dont seem to like stripping the coil pack  , what a nice  design the roll pins , pigs to extract and hard enough to evade any accurate drilling

so dont know  ive just repaired the inner shuttle rings the bore is just a "tube " a poke with some brake cleaner and your best hanky should clean it up inside 

Pete

[Graham C]

Thank you Pete, I have not stripped one of these down before. Am I correct then that the housing contains the windings which creates the magnetic force to move the shuttle inside the brass core, so besides the small brass shuttle and spring, is their another core/ shuttle that comes out?

I have not been able to find a diagram.

I agree those small pins are pigs to remove/drill out so that is good I do not need attack them.

Graham

[Pete Lewis]

Graham there is as far as i have explored just the one shuttle in the bore  the case just contains the windings of the electro magnet 

mine had a mind of its own as soon as we drove her home it was the first repair and experience of J types , worked fine on test run but that didnt last much in out out in as you drove

i have never stripped the coil saay  and cant see there is any need to 

very few manuals tell you about the shuttle inside  just part with lots of ££££s for a new one 

so one small circlip and a couple of new 0 rings on it and on the seals of the unit to the main case  solved all for pennies 

ive looked back and got mine from chris witor 

im sure nck0099K is the rings for sealing the body cant find the ) rings for the shuttle not even on ODspares or Overdrive Repairs but 

CW shows what looks promising as a kit but its a few ££  https://www.chriswitor.com/proddetail.php?prod=CW2411

get a feeling  they dont want you to do a cheap fix  

certainly a working one will rattle when given a good shake a stiff /gunged or grown 0 ring wont 

are we on our own with this ???

Pete

 

 

[GT6M]

Ive just had similar goings on, just put it up on anotha site, so you Ladds 

can ev the info too.

This so far es got me stumped,
maybe some of you Ladds had similar, or no wots going on.

J Type OD solonoid, it was found it wer,nt working, as no let,n pressure build up
it wer clik,n in /oot as the noise was there.

took it off, and its deffo click,n, but not covering the port holes when energised
took the innards out, and tested it, by put,n a shank down it, it worked, as the screwdriver shank was moving about 1/4 inch

Put the operating rod back in, and it was same as before, about 1/32 movement
took seals off rod, and fitted it back in, so ne resistance to effect the rod

put a punch down it, same size as rod, it worked, moved 1/4 inch
put brass rod section in, it dont move

 

Note, the wee spring int end is t,push the plunger / rod back doon,

the solonoid is quite strong, as it can lift the drift whicj is about 1/4 pound

but cant lift the plunger /rod

So, its some thing to do with the brass rod
for them no sure wots inside a solly, then look at pic,

For others info, took the roll pis oot, think,n that I could get at innards,
but the black cover,just covers the end bit,
there is no way into the workings bit
so a wasted effort there if any one else is think,n of going in there.

 

An for Pete, the roll pins easy drilled oot wid a center drill, lathe type

then ye need t,drill oot the brass bit after the nut, its a round tight fit into black body          so some locating screws can go in, t,tek spot of roll pins.

Any one any idea wots going on.

 

[Pete Lewis]

Hi Marcus,  thats a good shot of the innards know one wants to show us,  can the brass piston get magnetised so it wont  react to the electromagnet 

no idea what they are made of looks brassy but brass is not magnetic  ...Odd 

never thought about a centre  drill got some in a old tin of drills.

is the shuttle   free to rattle back and forth when shaken , not  getting seized somehow ??

Pete

[Graham C]

Hello Marcus

Thanks for the picture, I was hoping someone would post one and also the explanation.

All the Information gives me a better idea.

Cheers

Graham

[GT6M]

Ive been look,n at it just noo,
there is a difference between the solonoids travel, and the length of the rod / valve stems travel that fits into it

basicly, because there is a gap { thats what the clank,n noise is when ye give the solly a shek aboot } between the valve stem / rod, and the plunger, which seems t,be too big on this one, so the valve stem aint moving as much as it should doo, when plunger is moved.

there is a screw head inside the actuall body, on the end of the plunger
but it dont make any difference to the distance the plunger moves,
it just seems t,be free turning.
Unless, the screw has come adrift frae its adjusting nut on inside.

But there ne way of see,n that, nor can I fin an internal picture of the solly
IF the adjusting screw has come adrift, then that would make sence, as the sollys plunger can be adjusted, If it is adjusted that way.!!

Or, there was  a shim spacer, so it teks travel up,   but nin kem oot  oft plugers wol that I seen
and, at the very bottom oft pluger, on the walls, there seems t,be a recess all,t way roond,

As tried a wee nut in there, but this nut kept get,n stuk in this recess,so it did,nt move ato

OR,does this recess go into sollys internals, and spacers brok up, an took residence up inside  where it shouldt be.!!


will tek some pics later on when me cam batts charged up
as pics say a 1000 words.

[Pete Lewis]

 Marcus  .............i can see a  "mend it to destruction"b mode is about to arrive  to find out how this  screw works  
pete

[GT6M]

Yip,  div,nt like b,n beaten,

but the solly is work,n fine, its the travel oft piston rod / valve thats the problemo.

If the solly wer,nt wuk,n , then it would deffo be took t,bits

then maybe see if the screw heed was actually attached to a adjuster

 

I dont think its been t,bits befoer I got at it, as roll pins an body wer unmarked

And, cos I drilled roll pins oot, ed t,re drill  an tap for some counter sunk screw heeded screws

 

Looks like  because oft recess I think is inside the pluger wol, then the remedy is t,solder on a new bit of brass

onto end oft valve end, as the wee nut I used t,get movement stuk in the recess quite alot whenst test,n,

an  then adjust so its same ast t,other good sollys

 

If this is the case, then im think,n that alot of good sollys ev been binned

wen they could,v been fiddled wid an fixed !!

 

ev a deek thru thee,s pics, it,ll show what im on aboot

meb,e of some use t,some folk some where doon the line

 

1, this pic show,n screw heed inside plungers wol

note, the 2 wee indents, which I thowt wer for a circlip plier type tool, dont turn, its solid

so could nae get at innards

 

2, inner end oft outer bit, an wee nut i tried t,use t,mek distance up but it stuck moer than it moved in a recess bit

zero,n the vernier t,get a depth reading for travel

piston valve stick,n oot the end body bit, also show,n re drilled an tapped wols an counter sunk bodydistance of valve body t,end of outer bit, it wer spot on look,n where i looked frae, so ignor the gap

distance of plunger depthdistance of plunger travel

good an bad sollys at rest position, note where top bands are at ont inner valve

good sollys travel

depth of plungers wol depth

travel of bad solly

[GT6M]

Soldered a brass shim ont end, .8 mm

tried it ,works fint

tried it on a OD box ready t,go oot, works fine

 

So if yer sollys act,n up,

work,n,  as in click,n in / oot,  but no let,n pressure build

then look t,the inner valves movement

 

M

[Pete Lewis]

good one marcus    thanks  

Pete

[daverclasper]

Ta for that info Marcus. Any tips like that are brill.

Was that a shim onto the end of what is labelled the valve stem on the first photo?.

Also, I'm assuming there is no adjuster as such then?.

I did replace the o rings in my plunger a while back, though can't remember much about what it was like. 

Dave

Edited June 22, 2020 by daverclasper

[Graham C]

Thank you Marcus for the detailed explanation.

Will revisit my bad solenoid.

Graham

[alan.gilbert_6384]

I've got loads of the correct rubber seals (five of them per solenoid), after refurbishing mine and had to buy minimum quantity.  Will send anyone a set, SAE and a first class stamp, all that's needed, send me a PM.

[GT6M]

Yes its the  valve stem

the indent I said was thea, is actually the Stop for the piston oft solly

thats what the clack,n noise is

 

Biggest prob I kem across was the wee circlip, they a bugga t,get oot,

and no many spots ev em,

 

Hoo this valve stem got t,not trave further is a total mystery

took another t,bits, an the piston valve identicle length

so must be lower doon in the solly

 

measured the distance of travel of another, an it was diff to  the good,n I had,

there just a  wee bit, but the bad,n just moved aboot .77 mm a good,n moves aboot 1.6 -1.8 mm it seems

 

Untill Ive got a real dead,n, then Im  stumped a bit,

as it cant be adjusted as such, as the so;;ys travel is determined by the indent stop,

it cant go any further, and its deffo touch,n the stop,

 

And the stop aint worn, even it it wer worn, it would,v made the plunger come further up

so mek,n the valve move further.

 

 and the end  oft valve did,nt look like it had mushroomed, so loose,n travel in process.

ne doubt some Brain Box will sus it oot, but for moment, im stumped as t,why it wer like this

 

Easy t,test, just clean it off, an wire t,a battery, an click away

the travel can be seen, its no much, so no much at all is a no no, !!!