garage diagnostic equipment

[daverclasper]

Hi everyone

 

Got a problem with ignition system I think, and have replaced all electrical parts (though now also working at pos fueling issue).

 

I think I'm going to have to take it to a garage (for the second time in 20 years).

 

I was wondering if smaller garages normally have diagnostic equipment suitable for older cars that may diagnose electrical/fueling issues quickly, as on a bit of a budget as usual.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

 

Cheers, Dave

 

 

 

 

[dougbgt6]

Come on Dave! Tell us the problem, we can sort it out!

[Eddie]

Got a problem with ignition system I think,

 

What are the symptoms?

 

As dougbgt6 says, there will be someone on here who can sort it!

[daverclasper]

Thanks a lot for getting back.

 

Bit of a story so please bear with me.  

 

Vitesse Mk1 2ltre.

 

A bit back I fitted an electronic ignition kit. Car was running fine until I was trying to get the carb mixture better as plugs were always very sooty.

 

With the air box off it backfired and stopped.

 

The rotor arm had come of the cam and rotor had gouged 4 of the segments in dizzy cap. I replaced rotor and car ran, but rough.

 

Fitted a new cap and rotor from dizzy doctor. Car would run ok for a bit then started missing/felt like not running on all 6 cylinders.

 

Fitted points and condenser back on which were not old and adjusted timing to suit, checked vacuum and mech advance. Car still the same (have swapped these back and forth a few times).

 

Couldn't see why it would have damaged coil, but fitted new one. still the same

 

Since then have fitted all new HT leads and finally spark plugs.

 

Also ran wire direct from positive battery post to coil, to rule out ignition switch

 

Car now runs well for about 15/20 minutes (well into operating temp) but then starts to run rough again.

 

Began wondering if the back firing had affected fuel system, or a fuel problem coincidental.

 

Ran car without petrol cap to rule out vacuum in tank.

 

removed petrol pipe from carbs inlet and cranked over. spurting out good amount of fuel.

 

Plastic petrol filter that's fitted just before pump is newish and still clean.

 

Removed carbs. Diaphragms ok. float valve pins moving freely Carbs not dirty though cleaned with carb cleaner including fuel entry passages to float valves.

 

Used a colourtune and leaned down mixture to more a blue colour as was showing orange on both carbs.

 

Checked choke was not sticking on.

 

Now at a loss having replaced all ignition system, though still think it must be related to this, or finally, dirt in fuel line that is blocking it after running a while then unblocking itself after standing.

 

Any advice would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Cheers, Dave   

[Pete Lewis]

weve spoken about the dreaded slivers of rubber and odd debris that flaots back and forth in the fuel line ,, this seems the most likely as it waits for demand before blocking and whenleft magically restores till the next bockaing.

 

coils wired with the polarity reversed can also give the its stopped, get out kick a few things and hey it starts again ...till next time 

 

those are the main contributors to this crap phenomenon

 

the dizzy rotor failure has obvious leaning towards being a culprit 

 

but most of this you have covered more than once so  its time to set fire to it  .....or two tea bags  and hint of amber 

 

one other thing is the damper ring on the 6 pot can loose its bonding and the timing ring is moved around the pulley  and marks are then completely wrong

worth a look.  but this wont give an erratic problem.

 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Wow!

 

Changing things on these cars can be a can of worms! Improve one thing and you expose something else!

 

After you replaced the cap you say "ran for a bit then got rough" Later you say runs for 15/20 mins, then rough". Presumably the "bit" was a lot shorter than 20 mins? So every thing you've done in between is an improvement?

 

What plugs did you use? Plugs for moderns shouldn't be used on our cars, they need a level of HT our cars can barely attain and can't sustain.  but, I think anything with an R in the suffix is a no no. Pete Lewis can tell you more! Doubtless he will be along shortly!

 

Doug

[JohnD]

Dave,

Where are you?

I'd love to give my Crypton a run!

 

 

John

[daverclasper]

Hi chaps and thanks for your support.

 

This is doing my head in and also I'm losing in the banter stakes, with owners of modern cars in my street who are having electronic problems.

 

Car is now taking longer to misbehave, so that has improved. Maybe I can just use it, to do the shopping now!.

 

Plugs replaced same as old ones (NGK BP5ES). £10.24 inc vat and postage for 6. From, "Doctor Car Parts" off ebay if anyone interested. 

 

When I cleaned out carbs, in hindsight I should have also disconnected fuel line where it comes out of pump and blown it through from carbs to help clear any crap out. Will do this but maybe a bit late.

 

I have never cleaned pump filter as car was fitted with plastic filter, just before pump and this was clean. Clutching at straws now so will take a look (does this have a rubber seal that may fall apart?).

 

Also the LT wire from coil to dizzy looks old and a bit brittle (also this was used with electronic ignition), so will replace this anyway, though I thought as it's LT, it wouldn't break down under load.

 

Thanks for your offer John. I live in Bristol, if by chance that's near you.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Pete Lewis]

it pays to pull a fuel hose from the furthest carb from pump and if it doesnt have a pump hand prime lever let it idle for a short time , flush the petrol into a clean jar.. see wahts in it and if clean  put it back in 

 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers for that tip Pete.

 

Its funny. When I cleaned carbs out I also sprayed carb cleaner into the metal T piece piping that feed both carbs and they appeared clean.

 

This morning I sucked at the front of this as it's back on car and spat it into a jar (not pleasant).  There was this sort of pale white jelly in with the petrol, that seemed to emusify after being in warmer house for a while.

 

Just wondered what this might be and if it may be causing my problem.

 

The rest of petrol in the line from tank up to this T piece was very clean when pumped/blown through, as was the pump filter gauze.

 

Cheers, Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

its said old fuel does jellify   thats probably what youve sucked  !!!

 

Im certain some fuel addatives cause some of these problems bit like cold weather and diesel waxing 

 

same consistency   its enough to make you turn to drink.....  more tea !!!!!!!!!!

 

Pete 

[Roger]

one other thing is the damper ring on the 6 pot can loose its bonding and the timing ring is moved around the pulley  and marks are then completely wrong

worth a look.  but this wont give an erratic problem.

Pete

Pete, could you please clarify this. Damper ring? Do you have a picture or part number? Thanks in advance!

[gt6chris]

Pete is talking about he front crank pulley which on a six pot is actually made of two steel pieces bonded together with a rubber insert. This is because it is the harmonic damper for the crank. It has been known for the outer part of the pulley to rotate in relation the centre meaning that the timing marks are no longer the correct place.

 

http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,866522,866905#msg-866905

 

 

Chris

[Roger]

Thanks Chris! I did not know about this, good to know. My 1966 Vitesse probably have the original pulley, I have to check this.

That (new?) TR6 is looking good. Maybe you should change your nickname. TR6Chris?

Cheers,

Roger.

[daverclasper]

Hi everyone and thanks for your support with this.

 

Well, I think I deserve 10/10 for perseverance and 20/10 for stupidity.

 

At the time the rotor arm came off the dizzy, I had just checked the air filters and had put one back on upside down so no air flow through the cut out at the top.

 

So chuffed its finally ok, though spent a lot of last weeks holiday time and money (though now have new ignition system and spares) on car, instead of camping with car in Pembroke shire as it's my only transport.

 

Cheers, Dave 

[JohnD]

Well done, Dave!

It's always worth thinking, what was the last thing or things I did to the car as part of your diagnostic routine!

Glad you're sorted now.

John

[Pete Lewis]

there's a lot of tea shirts out there for making that little Hic Up

 

cant remember it it was suggested , its  really not uncommon .....

 

good news she running 

 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Hi.

 

It was suggested that the air filter box may have been put on upside down, which would cause the same thing, though I didn't think of the filters themselves.

 

I had forgotten about messing with these, in the excitement of the rotor coming off, and thought it must be related to this.

 

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

Cant have you getting ....excited

 

pete

[soundrediscovery]

I love these stories.... makes me feel better about finally fixing the lock on the shed door to make it more secure and then having to break it with a crow bar because I couldn't get it unlocked again.....

 

       

[Pete Lewis]

Thats a topic for the old age posting,

even if you ..........arnt.

keep smiliing

 

 

pete