Vitesse Mk2 Anti Roll Bar

[Peter Truman]

My Mk2 after 50 years has a lean to the right ie drivers side down 3/8in, general past comment on the Forum is probably the anti roll or sway bar.

I have removed it and there is a 3/4in (20mm) twist in the bar, a check with some reputable UK suppliers indicates there could be a preset twist in the bar one thought he had an original NOS which had a 3/4in twist too, where as the new ebay offering replacement bars are shown as flat1

Can the experts please confirm that the bar should be FLAT or have a preset twist!

[Pete Lewis]

this has come up before  the thin bar either had a set in it from new or develops one in life as the thin bar is always bent 

the thicker replacements are always flat to start with and dont seem to develop a  set in use 

why would the AR have a set in it this does not  off set any driver weight /camber to do that you would pack a spring 

to my ideas the twist makes little useful sense ....

most thoughts that the thicker bar upsets the understeer is more to do with tracking errors in the first place 

I used a courier rear spring and the 7/8 AR bar and she was on rails .(road going) 

but get the wheels pointing in the right direction as per the spec and it works 

see  my post   toe in the easy way  ,  

Pete

 

[Clive]

11 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

this has come up before  the thin bar either had a set in it from new or develops one in life as the thin bar is always bent 

the thicker replacements are always flat to start with and dont seem to develop a  set in use 

why would the AR have a set in it this does not  off set any driver weight /camber to do that you would pack a spring 

to my ideas the twist makes little useful sense ....

most thoughts that the thicker bar upsets the understeer is more to do with tracking errors in the first place 

I used a courier rear spring and the 7/8 AR bar and she was on rails .(road going) 

but get the wheels pointing in the right direction as per the spec and it works 

see  my post   toe in the easy way  ,  

Pete

 

Pete, I used a courier spring on a herald estate, with harder front springs, and the handling was a delight when I removed the front ARB. I think the stiffer front springs had more effect than the ARB. 

In general, ARBs are there to fine tune suspension. Springs do the donkey work.

But I do remember clearly, in the early 90's, a trader at Stafford show having a stack of new ARBs, all with a twist. Very odd I admit. Maybe they were set like that for the US market where most spitfires went? Similar idea to the spacer used above one of the suspension units. Who knows?

The simple fix is adjustable ARB links, see Jon Wolfes website.

[Peter Truman]

A local spring repairer is straightening the 13/16in ARB but I’m also thinking of rose jointed links. Somewhere in the past I picked up a number of 1/2in male and female units so should be able to do something with them a mate has a big old lathe so the spacers shouldn’t be a problem

[JohnD]

I built a rear ARB for Silverback, from a Peugeot bar.  It was all adjustable and I used to fiddle with it.   But one day my link failed, I took it right off - and it made no difference at all!    

I'm not convinced that a well prepared Triumph rear axle (lowered, stiff spring) needs an ARB!

[Pete Lewis]

straightening a twisted one sounds an unlikely long standing rectification  most torsion bars and shafts have a torsional memory

and things can easily revert or start a crack 

fit ns drive shaft to the os and they can end up quite quickly to be completely fractured as the crack eminates and spreads

across the drive shaft with a nice clean break 

as you drive the torque  unwinds  it   ................ they dont like it 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

It's not a brute force straighten, but heat treating/tempering in a furnace to reinstate it's spring properties @ $80 it's worth the punt! Time will tell, a friend had his sagging TR4 springs done a while ago and it's still OK, if it don't work then it's a case of a straight aftermarket one ex UK, postage is a killer!

[Pete Lewis]

let us know how this goes  

Pete

[daverclasper]

Would not removing The ARB and seeing how the car sat give an idea?. just a thought

[Pete Lewis]

if you have a lean just undo one end link  will show its effect  

lot easier that dropping the whole thing 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

I removed the whole ARB to have it straightened and there was still the RHS (O/S) was 3/8in lower, the RHS compressed spring was 12.25in over the spring mounting plates, compared with 12.5in on the LHS, logical if you think about it I'm a big boy and 50+ years of driving, also cheap Munroe shock's fitted.

I've had a set of new Gaz shock absorbers to fit for a while so I'm taking the opportunity after making a spring compressor (see Tool's thread) to fit them so I have the two springs out now, the uncompressed length of the RH is 12.25in & the LH 12.375in, I expected a greater difference. Measuring the Munroe shockers there was also a 1/8+in difference in the spring mount.

Unfortunately whilst the Gaz shock absorbers I brought are adjustable, I didn't buy the whiz bang adjustable spring mount version, well it was a few years ago, bugger!

I know the variations are relatively minor but to minimize any variance I was thinking of putting the slightly longer RH spring on the LHS as the coil over spring should only be exposed to axial compression ie memory shouldn't be an issue, your thoughts please? OR maybe a 1/8+in lower spring spacer similar I think as fitted on LHD, USA, GT6's LHS. 

[Clive]

you could fit a spacer above th etop mount, I think 3/8 would fit. I made some from slices of round ali, holesaw the main hole an drilled the 3 for studs. Wish I could find them, I took them off a while ago, and a local could use one for a similar situation to what you have.

BTW have a play with the gaz shocks prior to fitting, so you can feel how "strong" they are at each adjustment point. Last set I played with went solid at the 5th click from softest. 

[Peter Truman]

Te GAZ there set at mid range and I could push/pull them

[Clive]

23 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Te GAZ there set at mid range and I could push/pull them

that is interesting. The ones I was working with came from one of the suppliers as a "special", and had the wrong seat pans fitted (Gaz sent correct size FOC) I wonder if they are for another application? But they still went solid at 5 clicks. Maybe a faulty batch? Who knows. But they are working fine at 2 clicks rear (and 3 front, once the front is all back together.)

[Peter Truman]

Here's pic's of my Front Gaz Installed seat OD 3.5in and raided step 2,5in dia.

The adjuster is at neutral and shows (-) anticlockwise & (+) clockwise adjustment.

[Clive]

the ones I was fitting had ASP's so they were loose.  Otherwise seem to be the same. When I next see them I will check for numbers etc, but that won't be for a while as off to scotland (in the spitfire, should do 2-2 1/2 K in a week, so not too arduous) and then work stuff.

[Peter Truman]

Pete asked to advise the outcomes

With the ARB removed I put the Front suspensions O/S, RH spring (1/4in shorter) on the N/S, LH and vice versa, with new Gaz shockers, adjustable for rate not spring height, the result was the Drivers/RH and Passenger/LH sides were basically the same height to the top wishbone datum.

Ref the ARB which when removed had a 3/4in twist with the Drivers RH being offset high (lowering the RH suspension), I had the ARB reset by a local reputable Spring Restorer, ie he heated and straightened the bar, ensuring symmetry and then re-tempered the whole bar in a furnace, I actually had it reset 3/16in (5mm) low on the RH drivers side to accommodate any initial settlement & to set the drivers side a little higher. I also fitted standard aftermarket new ARB to lower wishbone vertical links, interestingly the RH link lined up perfectly but the LH needed persuasion ie it should have been a further 10 degrees offset for the bolt into the lower wishbone to line up correctly, brute force & impact gun was needed! The top of the upper wishbone on the RH or drivers side is now a little over 1/8in higher than the LH nearside, that will settle over time, the front wheel arch's are virtually the same, QED!

I will replace the ARB links with a rose jointed system which will be fully adjustable for alignment and length, I have the fittings, just need to make some spacers, the TR vertical links setup could also be used to provide link adjustment.

Now the rear NS or RH wheel Arch is 3/8in lower than the OS, LH , and the rear driveline has been restored, rebuilt lever shocks, but the original Mk2 Vitesse fixed spring. I'm thinking RH chassis packers to correct this! I've had the front and rear tubs off the chassis, the rear tub is an early 60's CKD Herald Conv replacement.

Well as my mate who's got an original 60 Mini to keep him busy during the ongoing Covid lock downs here, No5 currently but anticipate/hope a week only, he said to me well it's keeping you busy. Next on the agenda is to get the daughters Mk2 Spit up here and refresh the engine it leaks too much oil, fit a new hood (US Robins), fit & set up adjustable air shocks to the rear, get new tyres (Michelins) & fit the rebuilt gearbox with J type O/D. I'll take the Dolly Sprint down to her, she'll love that she had one as a first car when still at school in the mid 90's, like mine hers was one of 49 specially equipped by Leyland Aus with mods including LSD, we think it was done for mid 70's Bathurst homologation.   

[Pete Lewis]

thats a good update   

happy lock down then   

over here we dont now seem to know if we are coming or going    common sense is a bit thin these days 

and boris wants us to be responsible   everyone has been arguing for freedom now its approaching too many dont want it  

Hey ho   Pete