Differential rear halfshaft bearing 1200 / 1360

[Colin Lindsay]

Here's a question on Triumph Herald diffs: the diff was uprated for the late 1200 / 13/60 production by the addition of heavier halfshafts so there are two bearing sizes; earlier ones are 157732 and later are 533360A. Is there any difference in the exterior size of these? The reason I'm asking is because I have a number of spare casings, one of which has just been sandblasted and repainted ready for new bushes. I'm intending a straight swap for the currently fitted 13/60 diff so I'll be replacing seals and possibly halfshaft bearings as well. I'm hoping that the halfshafts may be heavier but the bearings are the same outer diameter. I think the current 13/60 case is damaged, possibly stripped threads as it's losing a lot of oil so a swap is the easiest solution.

So: is there any difference in the rear casing that would stop me refitting 13/60 halfshafts and bearings if by any chance this turned out to be an earlier 1200 casing?

 

[Clive]

9 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Here's a question on Triumph Herald diffs: the diff was uprated for the late 1200 / 13/60 production by the addition of heavier halfshafts so there are two bearing sizes; earlier ones are 157732 and later are 533360A. Is there any difference in the exterior size of these? The reason I'm asking is because I have a number of spare casings, one of which has just been sandblasted and repainted ready for new bushes. I'm intending a straight swap for the currently fitted 13/60 diff so I'll be replacing seals and possibly halfshaft bearings as well. I'm hoping that the halfshafts may be heavier but the bearings are the same outer diameter. I think the current 13/60 case is damaged, possibly stripped threads as it's losing a lot of oil so a swap is the easiest solution.

So: is there any difference in the rear casing that would stop me refitting 13/60 halfshafts and bearings if by any chance this turned out to be an earlier 1200 casing?

 

99% certain teh later 1/4 shaft type use a bearing with a larer OD. (I remember canleys had a stack of early casings machined so they could be used on later cars, odd how I remember that, no idea what I had for breakfast)

[Colin Lindsay]

43 minutes ago, clive said:

99% certain teh later 1/4 shaft type use a bearing with a larer OD. (I remember canleys had a stack of early casings machined so they could be used on later cars, odd how I remember that, no idea what I had for breakfast)

Thanks for the pointer Clive, I've just checked Canleys'; they're listing the same casing for all 1200s as 208011 (and have a rather strange listing whereby they mention GT6 / Vitesse 6 stud casing as 213469, plus they also list the alloy casing for the later Spitfire iv / 1500 as NLA see below) but they list the 13/60 and Spitfire Mk3 casing as 516818, so there's obviously some difference. Gosh durnit it's not going to be a straight swap then.

In their 'New and featured products' section they show an alloy rear diff case for Spitfire MkIV, 1500, GT6 MkIII and other swing spring applications (4 stud case, but can easily be drilled, and tapped for extra holes) but don't appear to differentiate amongst the 4 stud models.

I think - not confirmed 100% yet - that the later bearing 533360A has an outer diameter of 45.2 mm (can't find the earlier one) and am also trying to identify the Timken reference number.

 

[Clive]

18 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Thanks for the pointer Clive, I've just checked Canleys'; they're listing the same casing for all 1200s as 208011 (and have a rather strange listing whereby they mention GT6 / Vitesse 6 stud casing as 213469, plus they also list the alloy casing for the later Spitfire iv / 1500 as NLA see below) but they list the 13/60 and Spitfire Mk3 casing as 516818, so there's obviously some difference. Gosh durnit it's not going to be a straight swap then.

In their 'New and featured products' section they show an alloy rear diff case for Spitfire MkIV, 1500, GT6 MkIII and other swing spring applications (4 stud case, but can easily be drilled, and tapped for extra holes) but don't appear to differentiate amongst the 4 stud models.

 

All 4 stud case are indeed the same. I have swapped rear cases around 4 to 6 stud etc. Even fitted some large 1/4shafts with the earlier (5/16 bolt) flanges to 3.63. Did that on my mk3 spit in approx 1994 when I fitted a print engine, and needed a stronger/longer diff, but kept the driveshafts. I did fit GT6 front brakes...

The alloy housings are helpful with extra oil capacity. I also like a drain plug so the diff oil can be easily changed.

[NonMember]

It's certainly possible to swap quarter shafts between the 13/60 and the 1500 Spitfire diff, as I've done it. I also used to have a 13/60 diff on my GT6, with all the GT6 flanges. However, Clive's probably right about the early 1200 diff being different.

[Colin Lindsay]

The problem is that I don't know which car this replacement case came from, so can't pin it down to early or late models. If I can find the relevant bearing measurements I can confirm before renovating it any further and only then finding that the 13/60 halfshafts won't fit...

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

its also  same brg as the tail brg on a D type canley say spit ll  and the rest of the range so earlier must be different 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

its also  same brg as the tail brg on a D type canley say spit ll  and the rest of the range so earlier must be different 

So if the rear extension on a D-type overdrive fits into the diff it's the same size...

I've just remembered that my last Herald came with four spare diffs; if any of those are GE then I can check. That means sandblasting yet another rear casing...

[Colin Lindsay]

Managed to find two GE diffs and have removed one halfshaft; I can see no difference to those that I have sitting spare on the shelf so I'm assuming - not always a bad thing - that the earlier Heralds had the thinner halfshafts but the late 1200s from GA236701 plus the 13/60 gained the larger. The only early 1200 diff I have is already on the other Herald and is not coming off again! It's strange that some suppliers list one bearing for all 1200s and the other for all 13/60. The currently fitted bearing is a Hoffmann 125 V 3 which is 52mm wide, and seems to fit the case I'm working on, unless the difference in bearing sizes is miniscule. That being the case - no pun intended - I can use this renovated rear casing to replace that one currently on the car and therefore have it sitting ready to go.

 

[Pete Lewis]

sounds a plan

everyone said the 1600 had the small dia shafts but my 64 HB prefixed had the larger ones 

we know they evolved  i managed to shear some small ones in my 59 948 before it rusted to death in 1968

having removed the whole diff in the dark with a torch only to learn they are easy to remove from on car 

but you have to learn these things ..often the hard way to remember for ever  Ha 

there was no such thing as forums in those days 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

sounds a plan

everyone said the 1600 had the small dia shafts but my 64 HB prefixed had the larger ones 

we know they evolved  i managed to shear some small ones in my 59 948 before it rusted to death in 1968

having removed the whole diff in the dark with a torch only to learn they are easy to remove from on car 

but you have to learn these things ..often the hard way to remember for ever  Ha 

there was no such thing as forums in those days 

Pete

Easy to remove if you have the correct size of allen key; I spend half an hour looking for the only one I have in that size among dozens of others only to find that it's the only one that fits my tap wrench, too, so there it was. Now all I need to do is find good bearings; I'd rather not contribute to Chinese pollution so am looking for quality versions, Timken or Fag if available.