Breather valve lid

[Dan lewis]

Hi ive got a Vitesse built by my grandad so it has some parts swapped between different triumphs but whilst driving it the breather valve lid fell off and I've been having problems with it ever since as the first time i put to the bottom of a can on top but it kept the diaphragm from moving so im double checking that i need to make it fit over the whole thing or the inner rim. Also is a whole in it necessary. In the photo i tried recommended by someone but let in too much air. 

[Pete Lewis]

as the valve appears to be disconnected from any breather hoses you could remove it and blank the port in the manifold 

Pete

[Dan lewis]

56 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

as the valve appears to be disconnected from any breather hoses you could remove it and blank the port in the manifold 

Pete

Hi have tried this but pressure was building up in the manifold and causing the oil to come out of the oil dipper

[Pete Lewis]

the manifold has vacuum  no pressure    if oil spouts out the dipstick then the breathing is blocked 

then the small breather filter on the rocker cover output is useless as thats all you seem to have as a breather  ????

in the photo your smiths valve is not connected to the rocker breather at all just screwed into the manifold with open pipes 

its not doing anything to aid breathing 

Pete

Edited May 30, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Steve P]

I see you have HS6 carbs on a Long tract manifold,is this a 2.5 engine?,  if not I would remove the little filter and put it back to standard.

Steve

[Dan lewis]

29 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

the manifold has vacuum  no pressure    if oil spouts out the dipstick then the breathing is blocked 

then the small breather filter on the rocker cover output is useless as thats all you seem to have as a breather  ????

in the photo your smiths valve is not connected to the rocker breather at all just screwed into the manifold with open pipes 

its not doing anything to aid breathing 

Pete

Yes i have changed this by replacing the top of the breather back on but oil is still spurting out. 

[Dan lewis]

27 minutes ago, Steve P said:

I see you have HS6 carbs on a Long tract manifold,is this a 2.5 engine?,  if not I would remove the little filter and put it back to standard.

Steve

Its a 2.0 litre and i have removed the filter and replaced the breather but oil is spurting out 

[Steve P]

Does it have an external oil feed on the back of the head?, this can cause too much oil in the top of the engine.

Unnecessary on most engines.

Steve

[Dan lewis]

5 minutes ago, Steve P said:

Does it have an external oil feed on the back of the head?, this can cause too much oil in the top of the engine.

Unnecessary on most engines.

Steve

Sorry but whats a external oil feeder i still learning my way around the car 👍

[Steve P]

There will likely be a braided pipe coming from near the oil pressure switch above the filter which goes to a banjo bolt on the back of the cylinder head.

If not get a photo of the whole engine from the side.

Steve

[Dan lewis]

3 minutes ago, Steve P said:

There will likely be a braided pipe coming from near the oil pressure switch above the filter which goes to a banjo bolt on the back of the cylinder head.

If not get a photo of the whole engine from the side.

Steve

I cant see a braided wire anywhere but heres the photo

[Dan lewis]

But im pretty sure its a build up of pressure because whilst running and i take off the oil cap there is a release of pressure

[Pete Lewis]

inside the rocker cover there is normally a gauze filter surrounding the breather outlet  these get blocked solid and need its suport cadge pirying open remove and wash the filter

on the worst option the engine is in need of new rings etc   

any doubts about the smiths valve i would delete it and pipe the breather open  to atmosphere as a test

Pete

edit  might be worth calibrating the dip stick  not unusual that the marks give an overfill 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Steve P]

Where is oil spurting out?, unusual to have that much at the top unless as Pete said the breather is completely blocked. Does it smoke from the exhaust?.

Might be worth a compression test.

S

[Dan lewis]

5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

inside the rocker cover there is normally a gauze filter surrounding the breather outlet  these get blocked solid and need its suport cadge pirying open remove and wash the filter

on the worst option the engine is in need of new rings etc   

any doubts about the smiths valve i would delete it and pipe the breather open  to atmosphere as a test

Pete

edit  might be worth calibrating the dip stick  not unusual that the marks give an overfill 

 

Im going to go in for a compression test then hope for the best and will take this into consideration if all comes back good cheers mate 👍

[Dan lewis]

5 hours ago, Steve P said:

Where is oil spurting out?, unusual to have that much at the top unless as Pete said the breather is completely blocked. Does it smoke from the exhaust?.

Might be worth a compression test.

S

Where the dipstick is it starts to bubble over the if you remove the dipstick it srays out. The exhaust is smokey until it warms like usual. But yeah im jsut going to do a compression test and hope for the best. thanks alot 👍

[Pete Lewis]

do check out the gauze in the rocker cover and dont discount the oil level  when i got my vit6 it allowed extra 1.5ltrs to meet the high mark as the wrong dipstick had been in the engine for years 

you need to do a drain and refill add the specified amount  where does that sit on the stick  you could just be seriously overfilled 

as you get good puff when the filler caps off suggests the main breather is blocked 

and all that  would upset any compression test results     you must check / do the basics  first 

Pete

[Ian Foster]

Dan

I would recommend that you do try and get the Smiths valve working properly if you can, as it is quite a clever bit of kit. Later cars didn't have this arrangement and plumbed the rocker direct into the carbs (bean counter intervention I suspect). Alternatively if you duplicate the breather arrangement of the 2500S with your manifold and carbs that should work OK.

In terms of the original set up:-

Measuring the top plate on my Smiths valve, it has a diameter of 74.2mm, a thickness of 1.22mm which allows it to sit inside the top lip of the aluminium body. The hole is 5/64" (1.98mm) and is 11mm from the edge. I see that you still have the wire clip.

The original manifold has a connection tail on the top/centre of the balance pipe (see photo) which connects to the base of the Smiths valve with the S shaped pipe. You have the later long branch inlet manifold (2500S IIRC) which is considered to be the best one, but yours doesn't have the tapping on the top, but does have something on the inside face (yellow) which I suspect is the vacuum take off for the distributor. There is a boss on the centre/inside of the balance pipe which could be used for the breather tail.

An L shaped pipe then connects from the rocker box to the side of the Smiths valve. In my case I have added a catch can between the rocker box and the valve, just to clean things up a bit (works too!), so the L shaped pipe is deleted.

The original oil filler cap is a vented design and has a plug of wire wool inside it to act as a filter. You have a non-vented cap. The pipe coming out of the rocker box is protected by a plate internally (to reduce the effect of splash) and this point should be checked to make sure it is clear.

Definitely worth you checking compressions in case blow-by is the issue. 

Hope this helps.

Ian

[Gully]

Ian's beaten me to it - you have the wrong oil filler cap for that breather set up. You need the vented type Ian has pictured.

Gully

[Iain T]

20 hours ago, Dan lewis said:

But im pretty sure its a build up of pressure because whilst running and i take off the oil cap there is a release of pressure

I don't think the oil filler cap will be the culprit. It definitely sounds like a blocked rocker box vent/hose/filter as taking the cap off releases the internal pressure. Also don't worry about the possible external rocker oil feed as it won't produce pressure and even if the rockers are over oiled the oil just drains down into the pushrod holes. 

So take the rocker cover off and inspect and clean the vent tube and refit once you know its free of obstructions. Start the engine with the hose and filter off to see if the problem still exists. If it does it's blow by from the rings. Or.......as Pete suggested overfilling with oil although I'm not sure that would result in excess pressure as described. 

Iain 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Iain T

[Steve P]

I`m pretty sure that non vented cap will not help the PCV to work correctly, but as Iain says check the rocker vent is clear as well.

Steve

[Iain T]

I don't have that type of vented cap on my Vitesse mk2. I thought they were only on early TRs and the extra height also causes clearance issues. 

Don't do a compression test until you know the rocker vent is clear. 

Measured my hopefully correct dipstick and the max mark is 250mm down from the stop. If mine isn't correct someone please tell me! 

Iain 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Iain T

[Ian Foster]

Iain

GT6/Vitesse 2-Litre WSM shows the vented cap in most but not all of the figures and photos in the engine section. eg Fig 4 Engine details (fixed parts) and Fig 82 Front view of engine, which is Vitesse specific.

My understanding of the vented cap would be that the breather can extract some fresh air mixed with the fumes.

Ian

[Iain T]

41 minutes ago, Ian Foster said:

My understanding of the vented cap would be that the breather can extract some fresh air mixed with the fumes.

Ian, 

I've found an interesting period article which says the oil cap should have a 30 thou hole. I really am struggling to see that this small hole can add enough fresh air to have any or significant effect. However as you say it was designed that way! 

Iain 

[Ian Foster]

Iain 

My cap has a central brass rivet which holds on the rubber seal, through which there is a 7/64" (0.110") hole. IIRC on the top of the lower cap is a shallow cup, which is filled with wire wool, with the top section of the cap clipping over it.

I had mine re-chromed years ago and it one of the shiniest bits of the car! I have replaced the wire wool once or twice in my 46 year ownership.

Ian