1500 engine into a 1360

[Pdv]

Hi, 

I bought an MG Midget engine and gearbox and have fitted it onto the chassis of my 1360,the bulkhead is not bolted down yet but the inlet manifold and the hose on the fuel pump foul the bulkhead.

The holes at the front of the bulkhead line up with the corresponding holes in the chassis so it is in the correct position. I have the option of fitting a 1360 inlet manifold with a stromberg cd150 carburettor therefore doing away with the twin su carbs that solves that part of the problem.

I had to modify the gearbox mounts to the chassis as they were for the MG chassis and I wonder if the gearbox is  to low tilting the engine  forward. It was a while ago when I did this as due to an accident I have not been able to do much for a while but I  think I made it the same height.

If all else fails I have a 1360 gearbox that I can use.

Any help suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Josef]

Have you attached the engine mounts to the right (forward) side of the suspension turrets? There should also be a spacer plate between the engine mount and the turret. The engines are the same dimensions externally, so it shouldn’t foul. The single rail 1500 gearbox is a bit longer if I remember correctly, and switching to a Herald 3 rail box requires other work (clutch change, flywheel too I think?) but there are other threads covering that if you do turn out to need the info  

[johny]

Yes non OD single rail boxes are 3 inches longer than their 3 rail equivalent. Thats probably too much to accommodate with a standard propshaft so a non OD Vitesse propshaft is the only other standard one that would do the job. However this has a different flange for the diff but that could actually help as with a 1500 engine it would be nice to have the 3.89 ratio diff from the Vitesse as well. Though then the last sticking point is that the Vitesse diff has different output flanges so wouldnt match the Herald half shafts but luckily the two diffs quarter shafts can be easily swopped over and you can finally drive off into the sunset😊

[Steve P]

I have the same setup in my 13/60, no issues with twin HS4 or single rail O/D gearbox fitting, I drilled 2 holes in the mounting plate to allow the rubber mount to be fitted to the same plate.Vitesse prop and 1500 with 3:63 diff, good combo.

It also has a 4 into 1 manifold and HT starter,no space issues.

S

Edited July 10, 2023 by Steve P

[Colin Lindsay]

I thought I had replied to this yesterday but it doesn't seem to have gone through. If the manifold is hitting the bulkhead then the engine is too far back; is it correctly fitted to the turrets as Josef says, and is there a difference between the MG front mounting plate and the Triumph version?

[Wagger]

I am echoing Colin's input here. My Vitesse has a 2500TC engine fitted with no modifictions to its sump and front plate. It only just fits. I discovered that the mounts are handed left and right, and can be fitted, incorrectly, behind the turrets. You can achieve four different positions by swapping them around. The clue is, on the original sumps, that the recess should align with the steering rack, The 4 cylinder may not have this recess. I've only ever owned Vitesses and Dolomites.

You also need to position the bulkhead if you have had the body off (or somebody else has).

 

[Josef]

Looks like the same engine plate from this diagram at least https://www.ukmgparts.com/catalogue/mid-midcat-2-submid2-engine-1500-external-parts Another option is the engine plate being bent if the engine has been in a crash… Fingers crossed it’s not that though!

[Peter Truman]

Had a bent front plate on a MG 1500 engine that I rebuilt to fit into the daughters MK2 the engine is still in the garage decided the 1147 was better a better performer.

Interesting to hear Colin’s comment re different front plates between MG and Triumph 1500 engines but even better to read later comment they were the same!

I got a a metalwork shop to straighten the front plate by putting in a press with a straight piece or knife edge across where the bend was it looks straight and a straight edge across the bend shows everything is good.

[Pdv]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

Couple of things, I  fitted a new clutch and it has the same pert number ie 1360 and 1500 so I don't see a problem there and if I can get the engine back a bit I will stick with the gearbox that came with the engine.

I have the engine mounts as far forward as they can go but wii look at orientation as described. As for the spacers will look in the parts manual or make some.

Thanks again for the help

Steve

[johny]

According to Rimmers clutch kit part number GCK160P is for Spitfire/Midget 1500 and GCK272P for 1360 Herald. The 1500 should have a bigger 7.25" diameter clutch because of the extra torque it produces while the 1360 has 6.5" unit.

Perhaps yours has already been converted to a 3 rail gearbox with smaller clutch rather than the usual 1500 single rail - the former has reverse gear selected by pushing the lever to the left while the later gearbox reverse is on the right? 

[Pdv]

Hi Johny,

The 1360 and 1500 clutch from Paddocks have the same part number and enquired that they were the same before I bought it. So don't know what the difference is with the Rimmers one.

Steve

[johny]

Paddocks part numbers look same as Rimmers and theres quite a price difference between the two different sized clutches. Im beginning to think you have a 3 rail gearbox as Ive described and maybe even a 1300 engine...

[Pdv]

Hi johny,

The engine is definitely a 1500 as the code stamped on the block confirms. 

I looked at what gearbox was used in the midget and it was the same one used in the marina. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pdv

[Josef]

The input shaft splines are different on the three rail and single rail gearboxes, so they can’t take the same clutch plate. The 1500 engine was shipped with a three rail gearbox in the 1500TC, US Spitfires etc though. 
What does your gearbox look like? Is it the same as your old 13/60 one or obviously different?

[johny]

Ok well if you can confirm that reverse is on the right then Im flummoxed🤔

[Pdv]

Hi Joseph,

It is different to the 1360.

Steve

[johny]

15 minutes ago, Josef said:

The input shaft splines are different on the three rail and single rail gearboxes, so they can’t take the same clutch plate. The 1500 engine was shipped with a three rail gearbox in the 1500TC, US Spitfires etc though.

Even when a 1500 came with a three rail gearbox it had to have the bigger 7.25 clutch so I can never see there being a part number thats common to a Herald!

[Steve P]

The reverse on my single rail od box is next to 3rd.20 spline shaft iirc.

S

[Pdv]

Hi All,

I am getting confused with all this bought an engine and gearbox complete. From Chic Doig who said that it was from a MG Midget and was running well.

I took of the gearbox to make sure all was OK and in doing so found that the fingers on clutch plate were wearing so decided to replace both the pressure plate and clutch plate I the purchased both from James Paddock and fitted them and refitted the gearbox.

So as far as I can tell all should be OK,  as I said I had a bad accident recently  so it is slow going now but it will be a while before I get a chance to test it all.

Steve 

[johny]

All we can say with certainty Steve is that a non overdrive single rail gearbox is 3 inches longer than a 3 rail non OD. If your car was standard it would have had the latter so be aware that changing to the new gearbox is likely to make your new engine sit further forward. I dont think this will affect the gear lever position and also if the propshaft has a sliding joint you should be able to reduce the overall difference...

[Josef]

Easiest would be if you took some photos of the engine, gearbox, mountings etc. Then we’d be able to be more certain of what you’ve got and advise accordingly

[Pdv]

Hi Josef,

Will do.

Steve