Nick Whitehead Posted September 5, 2023 Report Share Posted September 5, 2023 Hi, advice please. What’s my next move? I have a squeak on one of my wheels on a Vitesse convertible. While driving, the squeak is obvious and persistent but occasionally stops. Even with the roof down I can’t be sure which wheel. It happens at all speeds, frequency is speed related, but stops immediately if I touch the brakes. But not if I apply hand break (suggesting front wheel?). I’ve jacked up each wheel in turn and tried to recreate the squeak by turning the wheel by hand (front) and using the engine (rear). No squeak, and no play in the bearings. All brake callipers, pistons and pads have been replaced recently. Any ideas? What shall I try next to diagnose my problem? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 I think another look at the front brakes is in order just to check everythings tight and correct. Did the pads have their anti-squeal shims and a dab of coppaslip? I know this is generally for noise on braking but may help in normal running especially until the pads bed fully.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 this will be pad chatter can improve as pads bed in may be made worse by some disc runout you could try Ceratec paste made by mintex do your squeal shims have a small edge loading spring leaf ??? they can help pad clatter and there can be two sizes of pin hole , too small wont fit too large and the pads can clatter depends who supplied the pads i assume on the Vit these are type 16 calipers unless its had some modifications and are they std pads or green stuff or mintex 1144 ????? pad clatter is nothing to worry about its just annoying and dont discount wheel trims they can make a lot of clatter if not secure Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) Thanks Pete and Johny. When I say the pads are recently replaced, I mean in the last 500 miles or so. So they are well bedded in. Pads and callipers are standard supplied by Rimmer’s; I don’t recall the make. I’ll reinstall with some Ceratec though and see if that works. Before that I’m going out for a road test with my son armed with a long tube to act as a stethoscope to see if I can verify which wheel… Edited September 6, 2023 by Nick Whitehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 you can often retune the rattle with turns , as this tends to load the disc on the outbord turn you may need to recheck you have less bearing hub float but must have some hand nip the castle nut and back off 1 or two flats there are two spilt pin holes in the stub to get fine adjustment the spec is 0.002" to 0.008" float aim for as little as possible do not reduce the float to zero or you will soon seize the bearing onto the stub axle you dont want that to happen Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 28 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: you can often retune the rattle with turns , as this tends to load the disc on the outbord turn you may need to recheck you have less bearing hub float but must have some hand nip the castle nut and back off 1 or two flats there are two spilt pin holes in the stub to get fine adjustment the spec is 0.002" to 0.008" float aim for as little as possible do not reduce the float to zero or you will soon seize the bearing onto the stub axle you don't want that to happen Pete Thanks Pete, I'll check the bearing when I re-install the pads. The wheel spun freely by hand when I jacked the car up. But the fact that the squeak stops instantly when I touch the brakes suggested to me that it's not the bearing. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 you are correct but excessive hub end float will create a disc wobble that may induce a rattle from the pads as it all moves about . it is just disc and pad clearance thats why it stops as soon as you lightly touch the pedal. when jacked hold the wheel and feel the float it should be just detectable as a loose wobble at the rim you cant really measure it but the one flat back from a light nip is good enough. you may even have a ring of rust on the outer periphery of the disc which needs chipping off (it flakes off easy) shims with edge springs look like this and are the best for our cars ages 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 and while you are in there have alook at the size of pad hole and the diameter of your pins due to mix ups with metric and imperial calipers they should be a nice clearance not a rattling one size fits all , too many pads sold with wrong pin sizes club shop sell pin kits and show there are two options dont know if they have aflat shim or a side sprung one need to ask Julian at HQ Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) I had an annoying noise on my Vitesse fitted with reconditioned 16P Brake Calipers, it was more of a rattle than a squeak though. I cured it with some additional spring loaded clips that fitted under the pins and tensioned slightly the pads, similar to these? Gary Brake Pad Anti-rattle Clips.pdf Edited September 6, 2023 by Gary Flinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Nick Whitehead said: Thanks Pete and Johny. When I say the pads are recently replaced, I mean in the last 500 miles or so. So they are well bedded in. Pads and callipers are standard supplied by Rimmer’s; I don’t recall the make. I’ll reinstall with some Ceratec though and see if that works. My new pads and discs still not fully bedded in after 1000 miles but then maybe thats my style of driving... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 2 hours ago, johny said: thats my style of driving. Time for a BRAKE then Kit Kat or Waggon wheel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: shims with edge springs look like this Pete Do you know a supplier for shims to fit 16P calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 6 hours ago, Nick Whitehead said: Thanks Pete, I'll check the bearing when I re-install the pads. The wheel spun freely by hand when I jacked the car up. But the fact that the squeak stops instantly when I touch the brakes suggested to me that it's not the bearing. Am I wrong? I've got the pads off. They are coated on the back with something, some of which has come off and is now stuck to the anti-squeal shims. Is that normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 some pads can have a plasticised /coating that from experience is as much use as a chocolate tea pot i would sand that off and just use the steel shim you have and re try again that bubbled crinkled finish will give you problems the simple flat shim with no relief to give the pad pressure a sort of leading edge seems pretty useless you can see the reilief shape in my picture they are the bee's knees in anti squeal design (in my view ) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 Thanks Pete. I’ve cleaned all components and applied lubricant. The squeak is solved! in the mean time I’ll source some shims with springs that you suggested and the next time I have to service the brakes I’ll buy pads without the goo on the back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 thats agood plan pleased its solved Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: Time for a BRAKE then Kit Kat or Waggon wheel Kit Kat, definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 Squeak resolved with lubricant. Thanks everyone for the advice. I have a 200 mile round trip to Somerset planned for the weekend and that squeak all the way would have driven me MAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 Pete A steer on a supplier for those anti rattle shims please. I'm using wire clips at the moment, but they are fairly robust and I think restrict the pads a bit. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: as much use as a chocolate tea pot Pete I like that one never heard that quote before but definitely for the archives! & at club meets or Mag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted September 7, 2023 Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 Dont think the youngsters know what a tea pot is these days - ohhh things just keep changing😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 7, 2023 Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Ian Foster said: A steer on a supplier for those anti rattle shims please. Ian having fun club shop are flat these show some odd wire spring still looking for what i like it was common on avengers etc in the day and i had some on my vit+type 16 s im still looking here is some but did marina use type 16 as per vitesse or typpe 14s ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted September 7, 2023 Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 13 hours ago, Nick Whitehead said: Squeak resolved with lubricant. Thanks everyone for the advice. I have a 200 mile round trip to Somerset planned for the weekend and that squeak all the way would have driven me MAD! If you find the braking a bit inadequate be aware that there are pads available which offer a worthwhile improvement... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 7, 2023 Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 just found a axle set of the sprung edge shims up for grabs i dont need them Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted September 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: just found a axle set of the sprung edge shims up for grabs i don't need them Pete Hi Pete, Can I put my hand up for these? Just confirming they are suitable for Vitesse Mk 2 2 Litre 1969. How much would you like for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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