Clutch Budgie Squeak!

[Phil C]

Afternoon All,

I had this problem back in March when I first started the engine after a rebuild. (last ran 1983)

The general opinion was that it was normal and would disappear once the bearing bedded in.

I have now covered around 1500 miles and the noise remains, if not getting worse, and its driving me mad!

Today I removed the transmission tunnel (to fix a broken speedo drive) and took the opportunity to inspect the squeaking clutch actuator.

I am not sure whether it is the thrust bearing or the clutch fork making the noise.

The fork shakes when not engaged which may be the source of the noise - video attached.

Having no previous Triumph experience I am not sure what is "normal". 

Any thoughts as to if I have a problem here?

Thanks. 

Apologies for the size of the Vid, not sure what happened 🤓

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Phil C

[johny]

With the engine running can you see if the clutch release bearing carrier inside is spinning? It shouldnt be as its designed to be held stationary by the other end of the operating arm...

[Iain T]

As Johny said! The carrier should have a dimple in the grove where the fork pins sit to stop it rotating. I fitted a pin through my carrier as the dimple was worn as we're the fork pins..... 

The carrier shouldn't rotate but the bearing face should be in contact with the clutch cover so therefore does rotate or you'll get a dead few inches in your clutch pedal. 

 

Iain 

[Phil C]

The carrier is not rotating but the bearing is touching the cover and is rotating.

 

[Iain T]

3 minutes ago, Phil C said:

The carrier is not rotating but the bearing is touching the cover and is rotating.

Then it's as it should be. 

Does the noise seem it's coming from the slave push rod/fork contact area? 

[Phil C]

13 minutes ago, Iain T said:

Does the noise seem it's coming from the slave push rod/fork contact area? 

No. But to be sure I put a little grease on the contact area.

It's difficult to be sure as the only way to stop it is to press the clutch slightly.

The bearing is new, but that doesn't guarantee anything these days!  The fork shakes slightly (as per the video) so the noise could come from its connection with the carrier?

Would a worn spigot bearing present this sort of problem?

[johny]

yes not sure whats making the fork shake if the carrier is stationary. Is the fork pivot pin solid where it pushes into the interior of bell housing as in the video it looks a bit loose? Years ago I had a clutch failure where the pivot pin head had worn right through the fork and the Vitesse hadnt done a huge mileage...

[Phil C]

3 minutes ago, johny said:

Is the fork pivot pin solid where it pushes into the interior of bell housing

There is no movement of the pivot pin. It feels like the fingers of the clutch cover are not running true (new clutch also)

Is the shaking not "normal"? I'm at the stage of dismantling where I'm thinking I should just go ahead and remove the gearbox. I will then be able to check everything. Reason for the post was hopefully for someone to tell me this wouldn't necessary because...........(fill in the blank🫤)

[johny]

How much is the carrier moving around with the engine running? Presumably quite a bit and thats making the fork oscillate....

[Iain T]

To check for worn fork pins rattling apply slight pressure to the fork by the slave push rod? If the rattle stops it's the fork or worn carrier groove or possible wear of gearbox nose o/d to carrier i/d. 

Just a thought. FYI mine rattles and don't know what the cause it but it stops when clutch is engaged. I have new gearbox carrier nose, new carrier, new bearing (correct thickness). It's annoying! 

Iain 

[Phil C]

35 minutes ago, johny said:

How much is the carrier moving around with the engine running?

It looks about the same as the slave end in the video. I guess its pivoted about half way so the movement is equal either end.

The fixing to the pivot pin is not tight, should it be?

[Phil C]

15 minutes ago, Iain T said:

To check for worn fork pins rattling apply slight pressure to the fork by the slave push rod? If the rattle stops it's the fork or worn carrier groove or possible wear of gearbox nose o/d to carrier i/d.

The noise is more of a high pitch squeak than a rattle but no doubt caused by the rattle.

I thought about fixing a spring to the fork at the slave end to apply the pressure you suggest but I couldn't apply enough pressure to stop the noise (without pressing the clutch pedal)

[Iain T]

6 minutes ago, Phil C said:

The fixing to the pivot pin is not tight, should it be

No there is a spring clip at the back of the fork that pushes over the pivot ball screwed to the bellhousing. It's not a tight fixing. 

When you depress the clutch does the noise stop? 

Iain 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

6 minutes ago, Iain T said:

When you depress the clutch does the noise stop? 

It does. 
As soon as the bearing begins to press the fingers it stops

[Iain T]

I've tried to get rid of my rattly noise and failed. I also have a new clutch cover and plate nuffin stops the rattle. It's a Triumph fing! Let me know if you find the cause.....sorry.

Iain 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

Thanks Iain, appreciate your input.

Will let you know if I ever sort it.

Doing the RBRR next week so that should sort it one way or the other 😳

[johny]

There is of course a coil spring inside the slave cylinder which is what maintains its piston pushed out until its held back through the linkage by the thrust bearing meeting the clutch cover. Whether these vary in tension I dont know but obviously it seems more pressure would help in your situation.... 

[Iain T]

I also changed my slave cylinder but didn't make any difference. 

I'm jealous RBRR....... 

Iain 

[Phil C]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Whether these vary in tension I dont know but obviously it seems more pressure would help in your situation....

I considered fitting an external spring to hold the fork against the clutch cover, but it didn’t seem to help.

I think I’m going to remove the gearbox tomorrow if only to check nothing is about to go bang.

[johny]

What exactly has been done in the clutch area? New clutch including thrust bearing?

[Phil C]

Yes, new clutch and thrust bearing.

problem is you start to doubt yourself…..did I put it all back together correctly!! 

[johny]

I was just wondering if the new thrust bearing went on completely square as if not that might explain the oscillation....

[Phil C]

Good point. Will check when I get sight of it all. Box coming out today 😫

[Ian Foster]

8 hours ago, johny said:

I was just wondering if the new thrust bearing went on completely square

The contact depth between the bearing and carrier is about 11mm, so I don't think it would be possible to assemble it wonky.

Phil

If you are pulling the box, check the condition of the slider that the carrier rides on, as these can become worn.

What clutch did you fit?

Ian 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Ian Foster

[Iain T]

18 minutes ago, Ian Foster said:

If you are pulling the box, check the condition of the slider that the carrier rides on as these can become worn.

Good point however I replaced this on my gearbox as I thought about it slapping around. Clearance is minimal but it still makes a noise.....! I wonder if it's clutch plate springs or pourly aligned teeth in the cover that's making the bearing hence assembly rattle. 

Iain 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Iain T