Clutch Budgie Squeak!

[Phil C]

9 hours ago, Ian Foster said:

What clutch did you fit?

It’s a Borg & Beck.

Gearbox out this afternoon and nothing stands out as a obvious problem.

8 hours ago, Iain T said:

pourly aligned teeth in the cover that's making the bearing hence assembly rattle.

This was one of my thoughts because when I disconnected the slave cylinder and manually pressed the thrust bearing against the clutch with the engine running it wasn’t a smooth engagement. But the clutch cover looks fine with all fingers level so I’m guessing that’s normal?

The carrier is in good condition and fits the slider snugly.

The thrust bearing is fitted correctly and is in good condition (only done 1500 miles)

The pivot is firm and in good condition.

The only minor issue was the retaining spring clip on the clutch fork had one arm slightly bent so possibly not gripping the pivot securely. It was also lacking grease in the knuckle (which could squeak?) Fixed now.

So not very conclusive but also reassuring that nothing appears untoward.

Going to sleep on it and probably reassemble tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Iain T]

3 minutes ago, Phil C said:

The thrust bearing is fitted correctly and is in good condition (only done 1500 miles)

Does it have the correct domed face on the bearing? 

I know it means removing the clutch but worth checking the crankshaft bush is not worn? This bush supports the gearbox shaft end. 

Iain 

[johny]

Yes and while there check everything is correct, just in case: looseness in flywheel or carrier slider tube, friction plate right way round. Has the fork had its pins replaced with dodgy home made ones? Even engine backplates can be bent so gearbox alignment is not true....

[Phil C]

Yes the bearing has the domed face.

I have taken the clutch and flywheel off and had a look at the spigot bush.

How snug should the fit be? It’s difficult to measure My clutch aligning tool fits ok but is about 8 thou bigger than end of the gearbox shaft. I did order a new one today which will be here tomorrow. I can then check the fit properly .

[Phil C]

3 minutes ago, johny said:

Even engine backplates can be bent so gearbox alignment is not true....

😳😳

[Iain T]

6 minutes ago, johny said:

Even engine backplates can be bent so gearbox alignment is not true....

Aaah been there! The PO hadn't used the one 3/8" oversided alignment bolt to align the bellhousing but 5/16" all round. This made (I measured it) 28 thou out of centre and caused terrible drive train vibration. Once the correct bolt fitted it was only 3 thou out and smooth as silk. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Iain T

[Iain T]

7 minutes ago, Phil C said:

I can then check the fit properly .

I drove my old bush out using a dummy shaft and packing the cavity with grease. A tap with a hammer on the shaft and hydraulic action popped the bush out. 

As I have a T9 gearbox I also machined out the flywheel to take a standard Sierra bearing for extra support as there wasn't that much of the shaft in the spigot bush. Works OK...sofar.

Iain 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

10 minutes ago, Iain T said:

The PO hadn't used the one 3/8" oversided alignment bolt to align the bellhousing but 5/16" all round.

Not aware of this. Can you expand please?

[johny]

Heres the clearances for the bush:

[Iain T]

12 minutes ago, Phil C said:

Not aware of this. Can you expand please?

To fit and align the bellhousing Triumph in their wisdom used a dowel at 12 o'clock and one oversized bolt at about 5 o'clock. The rest are smaller 5/16". Don't know why the didn't use two dowels as this misalignment is not uncommon to the ill-informed. Best check as its such a simple mistake to rectify. Using the same size 5/16th bolts allows the bellhousing to rotate norra lot but enough to make the gearbox want to leap out the car! I kid thee not I couldn't drive over 45mph!

Iain 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

14 minutes ago, Iain T said:

To fit and align the bellhousing Triumph in their wisdom used a dowel at 12 o'clock and one oversized bolt at about 5 o'clock.

Didn’t know that. It’s not mentioned in the manual either but I’ve just checked and I have the oversized hole. 
I didn’t have any vibrations previously so may be I just got lucky?

Anyway I know now, thanks.

 

[Iain T]

17 minutes ago, Phil C said:

I have the oversized hole. 

But was the 3/8" bolt fitted? 

[Phil C]

No, all 5/16

[Iain T]

34 minutes ago, Phil C said:

No, all 5/16

Oops, please refit with correct bolt or you may be in trouble. 

I had my T9 box refurbed via a now thankfully long gone Triumph specialist who didn't use the correct bolt and made the car virtually undriveable. A stand up face to face argument and several legal threats ensued until another very helpful and knowledgeable guy said I know what that is..... He was spot on and he didn't even look at the car! 

Clear the hole out of crap and dirt first. 

Iain 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

Thanks again Iain, every day is a school day 😊

[Iain T]

You're welcome. I know nothing compared to many on the forum but what little I do I'll gladly impart to help. 

Iain 

[johny]

Yes I didnt know that either and will have to check mine. Now I look in the manual under torque settings it does say 5/16" stud, 5/16" bolt and 3/8" dowel bolt for the gearbox to backplate fixing...

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, Iain T said:

To fit and align the bellhousing Triumph in their wisdom used a dowel at 12 o'clock and one oversized bolt at about 5 o'clock. The rest are smaller 5/16". Don't know why the didn't use two dowels as this misalignment is not uncommon to the ill-informed. Best check as its such a simple mistake to rectify. Using the same size 5/16th bolts allows the bellhousing to rotate norra lot but enough to make the gearbox want to leap out the car! I kid thee not I couldn't drive over 45mph!

 

I had one bell housing bolt that had come out on an Iveco van. Van would shake like hell, over 55mph. I was surprised it caused this

[daverclasper]

I had the chirping noise on Vitesse (disappeared when the clutch slightly depressed with fingers) . Not that uncommon apparently, and may be caused by a shorter than should be, release bearing often supplied.

I have a thread on here regarding this issue and cured the noise with a weak spring on the push rod. Info and a photo on here somewhere?

[Phil C]

9 hours ago, daverclasper said:

and cured the noise with a weak spring on the push rod.

Dave, no luck finding your earlier post! Did your spring tension the thrust bearing towards the clutch cover or away from it?

[johny]

Here it is and I wonder if the spring acts more as a damper rather than actually tension the linkage.... 

 

[Phil C]

Thanks Johny. Your search skills are far better than mine!!

Very interesting/clever solution and to be adopted here.😊

[Pete Lewis]

bit late on this as broadband collapsed for two days

the amount of thrust bearing shake has to be down to diaphragm finger run out 

the missing 3/8bolt is a significant problem   and will allow misalignment 

throw out brg should be 19mm thick  many new are only 15mm  the solution is add a washer under the speherical post 

to space it a little futhere away from the gearbox face .

if the throwout carrier has no dimple to stop rotation you can drill and fit a splitpin in the groove .

chirping is normally due to the fingers skidding on the new bearing  hence a small pedal load makes it spin ok and the noise stops ,

your throwout lever jiggling around it not normal and needs a solution somewhere there is a runout between fingers and brg.

Pete

 

[Iain T]

42 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

the amount of thrust bearing shake has to be down to diaphragm finger run out 

the missing 3/8bolt is a significant problem   and will allow misalignment 

The jiggling could just be down to misalignment. My misalignment knocked out the spigot bearing in no time. 

I agree about the diaphragm fingers, the quality of most covers is questionable. I've done everything to stop the noise save an external spring which is next in my list. There is a company that will correctly set your cover but bloomin 'ell it's a sad day if it comes to those extreme measures. 

Iain 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Iain T

[Phil C]

Thanks for your input Pete. Good to know the jiggling lever is not normal but not sure what the solution is.

Do you think the missing 3/8 bolt could be the problem?

The bearing thickness is 19mm.

I attach photos of carrier and lever showing condition/wear. 

Would you consider this significant to the problem?

Phil