Only me!

[npanne]

Hi all.

Back here after a few years away, mostly because progress with my car has been slow (read stopped).

one day I’ll sort the ruddy thing out, but for now it’s got me beaten all ends up so it’s resting until I can find the funds to send it to a professional with more patience than I have ?

[llessur]

The thing ran. I saw it, heard it and I definitely smelled it.

[Pete Lewis]

From all that way off   ??    

Pete

[llessur]

This was the highlight of my trip back to the UK last year. Not sure how happy my wife was that I set aside a whole day of our holiday to work on an old car (and then go to the pub)...

But, I can attest that it ran.

Hey, npanne, on that note - what was the situation with the ignition? I can't remember... Was it running points or electronic? If the former, has it definitely got the right coil depending on whether it has or hasn't got a ballast resistor? If it's electronic ignition but was previously a ballasted circuit, is the electronic ignition OK with less than 12v?

[JohnD]

welcome back, npanne? Can we help?   Can't provide funding or compliant partners, but inspiration and ideas?

You car looks mint from the A-post back, what's the problem?

John

[Colin Lindsay]

14 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Your car looks mint from the A-post back, what's the problem?

John

The A-post forward?

We all take breaks from restorations; both mine are stalled at present, one waiting on some light welding and the other waiting on some heavy welding. It's amazing how, after some time away, that you can walk back into the garage and look at a problem then realise it's not as bad as first thought, and get cracking again with a wonderful boost of optimism. I do it all the time!

Anyway, you don't need a running car to post here, in fact many of the discussions end up amazingly far from anything Triumphy at all....

[npanne]

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

welcome back, npanne? Can we help?   Can't provide funding or compliant partners, but inspiration and ideas?

You car looks mint from the A-post back, what's the problem?

John

Thanks John,

The car’s now bad - it’s certainly not mint, but it’s solid and presentable from a distance - the bonnet is better than it looks, and will get a respray to match the rest of the car once there’s a chance of it running.

The problem(s) is mechanical. I stripped out the 1300 lump and dropped in a GT6 engine and box (plus all the other bits involved), but it just won’t fire. 

Over time I’ve been worked through and checked or replaced nearly everything except the really expensive option (which is pulling the engine for a full rebuild).

in sequence:

Firing order and timing checked (about a hundred times).

Spark checked - was a little weak so worked through and replaced / rebuilt everything in the ignition system - now that’s okay.

Fuel supply was mediocre so lines, pump and filter replaced and carbs rebuilt.

It was cranking a little slowly so new battery and high-torque starter fitted.

Compression checked - it’s a little low, but over 100 on each cylinder, so should be enough to start - the head was rebuilt with new valves / seats etc but no change, so it’s looking like rings might be either broken or sticky.

I’ve got to the point where I’m admitting that it’s beyond me - both in terms of expertise and patience, so the plan is to either find a running engine that I can drop in complete or just pay someone to take this one and rebuild it and bench test it to prove that it works.

Everything else mechanical has been changed - suspension, brakes, drivetrain, cooling system - the works, so hopefully one day I’ll get the benefit of all that ?

In the mean time I keep an interest in all things Triumph.

[Pete Lewis]

If all 6 were low and the heads been refurbed was the comp test done with the throttles shut that lowers expected results by a lot

As would cranking speed and it needs 4 to 6 strokes tombuild a figure 

If you have fuel in the right ratio with air a spark at the right time and compression it should go 

Pete

[Roger]

Regarding firing order and the crank damper pulley: Have you checked that that the outer hasn't shifted, which would make the timing marks on them completely false? If the outer ring of the damper shifts then timing might look ok, but it could be unrunnable. I think both John and Pete have described how to check this here, but I could not find it.

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

Yes its per hate of mine

Simple test is remove plugs , stick thumb over no1 plug hole ,rotate engine slowly, wait till air on compression stroke passes the thumb

As piston rises use a wire probe to judge piston is now up to top , check the relevance of the timing marks on the front cover

Tdc has a lot od crank rotation without piston movement so this is not as accuate as using a piston stop screwed in the plug hole 

These are available , turn piston from clockwise stop to anti clock stop , make simple  card disc on front crank pulley mark the two stop points and halve them this is real tdc.

Make a stop by adding modifying an old sparkplug  so it can just toich the pistonwhen its near its top of stroke

Also check no1 ht lead is fitted where the  rotor is pointing 

Pete

[npanne]

I did check that the timing mark is correct -  when the head was off I was able to check the piston was at TDC when the mark was in line, and I’ve rechecked since as described.

the compressions were taken with throttle fully open - and once with the carbs removed altogether - I’m thinking now that it’s either :

head work not done properly (seems unlikely as it was a reputable place)

or rings knackered.

 

[Nick Jones]

100 psi per pot is plenty to start. 

I once managed to start a 1300 that had no compression above 50 psi and most rather less. Did take 24v and a whiff of easy start but once running the rings freed off as it warmed and it made a full recovery.

Stale fuel is a major problem these days, as are NGK plugs that have got wet with fuel and no longer work.

Nick

[Clive]

Just a thought. Other day spoke to a triumph owner. One of his cars es similar. Herald, but same issue. Fitted another engine complete with inlet/exhaust manifold. That was fine.

Checked the one that refused to start, as it had come to him as a good engine from a reliable source. Then he noticed the stainless 4 branch manifold was had against the engine at sump level. Which meant that the manifold studs would tighten up, but there was still a small gap at the bottom of the manifold flanges. Hence sucking air in, and no firing....

Will the car fire on easy start? Or if you fancy a other set of eyes for an hour or two, just let me know. 

[npanne]

1 hour ago, clive said:

Just a thought. Other day spoke to a triumph owner. One of his cars es similar. Herald, but same issue. Fitted another engine complete with inlet/exhaust manifold. That was fine.

Checked the one that refused to start, as it had come to him as a good engine from a reliable source. Then he noticed the stainless 4 branch manifold was had against the engine at sump level. Which meant that the manifold studs would tighten up, but there was still a small gap at the bottom of the manifold flanges. Hence sucking air in, and no firing....

Will the car fire on easy start? Or if you fancy a other set of eyes for an hour or two, just let me know. 

Thanks Clive - it had occurred to me that the inlet might not be properly seated - when Pete (?) looked at it a few years back he said that there wasn’t much “suck” through the carbs. I do have a cast manifold in a box somewhere - might throw that on and try it when I next have time.

PS - nope - not even with tonnes of it - it did fire loosely once, but for about five seconds.

PPS - thanks for the offer, I know you have stacks on, but might take you up on it one day.

PPPS - if it turns out to be the stainless manifold, I’ll blame the guy that sold it to me ?

[JohnD]

Sounds like a case for twiddle day, if you can bring it on a trailer/tow.

It WILL be something simple.  These engine are not temperamental.   I have one in my engine rig that I bought with no head, the bores full.of water, seized and with a sump.full of Black Gunge.   All i did was free the pistons, slap a spare head on it.  It must be worn out, but still runs!  So there's hope!

Don't think younhave mentioned valve timing.   Check my Equal Lift on Overlap, for which search here.

John

[Colin Lindsay]

On 8/4/2018 at 11:13 AM, Nick Jones said:

I once managed to start a 1300 that had no compression above 50 psi and most rather less. Did take 24v and a whiff of easy start but once running the rings freed off as it warmed and it made a full recovery.

Did that with a Series 3 diesel Landrover, it was dumped in my back yard as a non-runner and I saw it as a challenge... I just poured an entire bottle of that heavy compression-raising oil into the rocker (overcomes worn piston rings!!) and used half a bottle of starter fluid, but it started eventually and once running just kept going...

[Nick Jones]

Diesels with low compression are a real challenge, especially if no working glow plugs.

Nick