Oil Cooler or not?

[Steve P]

So i am about to fit my newly built engine to my Herald,its a Spit 1500,hairy-ish cam,ported head,roller rockers,all balanced rotating parts,Nitrided crank etc.

10:1 compression.

Got a full width alloy rad to go in but sticking with the mechanical fan for now.

I have heard mixed opinions on these engines running the (centre) mains after long runs due to oil issues,what`s the learned opinions on fitting a cooler?.

I have been recommended Joe Gibbs HR 1 racing oil for its high Zinc content.(15w/50 1250ppm zinc)

Don`t want to waste good money if it dies after a long run,won`t be revving the balls off it but we do a lot of long tours which include long motorway runs sometimes.

Steve

[Guest]

Hello Steve,

I will get the ball rolling on this.

The oil you mentioned has a decent zinc level so that is good - I've looked at the Driven Website, is this a breaking in oil or not ?? Additionally semi-synthetic or mineral multigrade ??

As to the point about oil pressure dropping close to zero that has, as you probably know, nothing to do with the ZDDP factor. It is the shear factor / Viscosity Index  of an oil that maintains it pressure after a testing / long haul run; in essence it prevents the oil from degrading.

I have a OE spec oil cooler on my 1725 Alpine, but one is not fitted to my 2Ltr Mk2 Vitesse as OE equipment; you may think the Vitesse would need that over a four cylinder. If you have a thermostatically controlled oil cooler then that will certainly prevent your oil being cooled too much which can be just as problematic as overheating.

The question is do you think your engine oil requires additional cooling ?? There will be responses that can give you certain deciding pointers.

Yes, see how you get on with the standard fan but it does rob power (a couple of bhp) and if it is mounted on the water pump it will (especially metal bladed) place additional strain on the pump bearings.

Regards.

Richard.

[Steve P]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for the reply,i realise zinc is nothing to do with the shear factor.I have a running in oil as well but the HR 1 is a mineral multigrade for use after about the first 500 miles.

I have a 2.5L vitesse thats puts out close to 170 bhp without a cooler and that maintains excellent pressure even after a good fast run.I always used Valvoline VR 1 in that but was told recently the spec of this has changed to enable the SAE rating?(no idea).

I have an original SAH cooler kit in my shed brand new in the box,but guess the 40+ year old hoses are not to be trusted.

By the way the new engine has a modified pump with a bigger rotor that will give more capacity.

Plastic fan on the water pump.

Steve

[Guest]

Hello Steve,

VR1 is a great oil and I know a couple of fellow Triumph members who rate the oil highly - it has an excellent API level (SL) and the VI is very decent, put all that together and you can understand why it gets the thumbs up. Not sure why the SAE is being addressed as it appears to be confirmed at 20W/50.

I will be very interested to see how the thread progresses as it covers many points that are flagged often.

Good luck.

Regards.

Richard.

[Clive]

Steve, I got through 5 1500 engines in my Toledo. One was a fully balanced high spec unit built with new Vandervell bearings. But that died at goodwood.

I tried VR1 oil, it was OK but the better oil was Millers CSS 20-60. I have had that in the car (now has a TR7 lump)  for 2 years. It was put in for the last RBRR, so a decent test...

Anyway, back to the 1500. When hot the CSS was about 10psi ahead of the VR1. And I did fit a thermostatically controlled cooler, again that helped control oil pressure.

So my advice, having thrashed 1500 (those engines got thrashed, sitting at 5000rpm on motorways, doing trackdays, autosolos, PCT's and so on), is millers CSS 20-60 and a cooler....

[yorkshire_spam]

I run a 1500 in the Spitfire and without an oil cooler the oil (either VR1 or Penrite 20/60) would be trashed at the end of a "big event" (10cr / rbrr) 

With the oil cooler the oil survives a bit better. (I still change it after the events though) 

[JohnD]

 before doing a cooler, establish if your oil is overheating.  

Easiest, and doesn't require any drilling, isto.use a VW dipstick sensor, made by t VDO.    Oil should run at 100 to 120 C.  Less and it's not working g right. More will breAkdown more quickly.

And if you do get one fit an oil tbsrmostat, or most of the time it will be too cold.

John

[Anglefire]

Is this one of these John? http://www.vw-resource.com/dipstick.html

[Anglefire]

Or more accurately, one of these http://www.savemybug.com/type4.htm (or the type 1 one depending on the length required?)

[Anglefire]

Actually, I guess its more like this http://fisherbuggies.com/vdo?Page=3&Items=12 but can't work out how the oil temperature would be any way accurate unless it gets fitted into the sump?

[Nick Jones]

From direct experience of a 1500 engine in a Herald....... they do appreciate an oil cooler.  That was a with overdrive and a 3.89 diff.

Strangely enough my Vitesse never seemed to need one until some ejit baffled the sump.

Anyhow, to answer the original question, I would fit an oil cooler, but with an oil-stat so the oil is not over cooled.

Nick

[JohnD]

No, Anglefire, I mean like this: https://www.justkampers.com/vdo-oil-temperature-gauge-kit-with-dipstick-sender-1200-1600cc-models-to-1979.html?fee=1&fep=1253&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLAs&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz93cBRCrARIsAEFbWsgKXHrjgfb_HZCjK1f-z0uKyODbnFINCZO26COMGp72WVNEgwa4kK8aAubmEALw_wcB

Cheaper may be available.

JOhn

[Steve P]

Thanks for all the replies,i was leaning towards fitting a cooler so i think its the way to go,i will try the Millers 20/60 too.(thanks Clive,this is the car i did the 2014 RBRR in on the 1300).

And to Nick,mine has overdrive and 3:63  diff so its more relaxed even on the 1300.Soon to be CV shafts too.

Just need to buy a 123 Tune and 4 pot calipers now..

Steve